Steampunk questions stack

[Nemo]

Steampunk has several unanswered rules clarifications. It has been out almost a year and I have yet to see any official errata.
I believe I have read all the topics about Steampunk in the OGL section of the forums. Please forgive me if I have overlooked the answers to to the following questions somewhere else.

1. Characters/Creatures with no Constitution ability: I understand that it's not a zero or negative score. They just don't have a Con ability. But what does it mean when it says they automatically fail Constitution checks? Does that include skills? How do they make Concentration checks? Use their Charisma score modifier?

2. When Vampires become a normal human during daylight hours, they lose their powers. Is this just their activated powers, like blood rage and other traits they may have? I'm assuming they don't die because they have no Con ability.

3. Since Ghosts and vampires are undead, can they be turned by Ecclesiasts, priests, paladins, etc.?

4. What if I bought this book thinking it was a complete game in one volume? There were no npc's or creatures included. Any one have any guidelines on how to create monsters and determine what their challenge rating is?

Don't get me wrong, I really like the game. But a lack of official support is not good. Is Mongoose like this with all their games?

 

[Neo]

1. Characters/Creatures with no Constitution ability: I understand that it's not a zero or negative score. They just don't have a Con ability. But what does it mean when it says they automatically fail Constitution checks? Does that include skills? How do they make Concentration checks? Use their Charisma score modifier?

This is a little misleading.. automatically fail.. in so much as the effect just doesnt work on them. This is due to the fact that they are immune to all Constitution or Fortitude requiring effects so anything that would normally need a Con or Con related roll is pretty much useless against them.
They make Concentration checks just like anyone else, but yes they use thier Charisma bonus instead of the usual Constitution bonus just as other similar Undead would in other D20 games.

2. When Vampires become a normal human during daylight hours, they lose their powers. Is this just their activated powers, like blood rage and other traits they may have? I'm assuming they don't die because they have no Con ability.

They lose access to all Racial traits as per the Vampire species.. all abilities and ability modifiers..active traits etc.. The only exception being if they were in another form they are effectively locked into it until the sun goes down. And I would assume also that the blood need occurs every morning regardless too.

3. Since Ghosts and vampires are undead, can they be turned by Ecclesiasts, priests, paladins, etc.?

Yup for Ghosts... for Vampires I would assume only during the hours of Darkness as they are effectively just normal mortal humans during the hours of daylight.

4. What if I bought this book thinking it was a complete game in one volume? There were no npc's or creatures included. Any one have any guidelines on how to create monsters and determine what their challenge rating is?

we actually stated as much when we playtested this book.. it is a little light on the ground for the rank and file npc types... As for monsters they are created in exactly the same way as the Monster Manual dictates. Only difference being to use skills as per Steampunk, and remember when choosing feats you have the option of the steampunk ones too.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the game. But a lack of official support is not good. Is Mongoose like this with all their games?

In general such support is not always as easy a thing a s people think.. first they need to get in touch with the writer..who may or may not necessarily be still working for Mongoose, and then they need them to give the necessary answers.. which dependant upon the relationship or availability of whichever writer it is they are trying to get in touch with may actually be a fairly drawn out and time consuming process...this is all done fo course while they are trying to run a business, deal with writers, editors, proofreaders, advertisers, printers, distributers... and the multitude of other folks who may move through thier daily dealings... in order to see that other releases are written and produced and distrubted on time. They also need to know the questions are out there and pending... and they only have so much time each day to visit the forums and read the posts...so patience is always helpful along with the odd reminders heh.

 

[Nemo]

Thanks Neo for clearing the questions up.
I've never worked for a publishing company, or even written anything, so i geuss I wasn't thinking how busy those guys and gals must be. I didn't mean to be an @$$. Hopefully it wasn't taken that way.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Here's something that's confused me: once you've taken a class and chosen your starting vocation, how do you get into a different one? It seems kind of silly to say that if you start as an Adventurer (combatant), you may never become an Aventurer (hunter) or Adventurer (pilot). It's why the d20 system has such open multiclassing rules in the first place. So how would one go about "multivocationing"?

(And I'm still not too clear on regular multiclassing, either. You DO get a starting vocation for each class you take, right? Things just wouldn't work otherwise.)

 

[Neo]

Thanks Neo for clearing the questions up.
I've never worked for a publishing company, or even written anything, so i geuss I wasn't thinking how busy those guys and gals must be. I didn't mean to be an @$$. Hopefully it wasn't taken that way.

No worries Nemo, glad I could help.

You didn't come across as an @$$ so no fears on that front :lol:
I just didn't want you to get the wrong idea by taking any non-response from Mongoose as being disinterest or negligence on thier part and just throw a little perspective on why no immediate response from them may have been forthcoming.

 

[Neo]

Here's something that's confused me: once you've taken a class and chosen your starting vocation, how do you get into a different one? It seems kind of silly to say that if you start as an Adventurer (combatant), you may never become an Aventurer (hunter) or Adventurer (pilot). It's why the d20 system has such open multiclassing rules in the first place. So how would one go about "multivocationing"?

(And I'm still not too clear on regular multiclassing, either. You DO get a starting vocation for each class you take, right? Things just wouldn't work otherwise.)

VOCATIONS

Essentially whatever vocation you choose at 1st level is what you get..period. vocations represent what you did prior to 1st level in much the same way as occupations in D20 Modern.

So for example a Human Adventurer 1st level "Curuthers Harkness" decides he will take the pilot vocation. On top of the starting feats the adventurer class gives him he also recieves Use Amazing Device. Also to the list of Class skills for adventurer he adds Drive and Pilot. Whenever his level allows him to choose a bonus feat as well as those listed as being available to choose under Adventurer he can also choose Focused, Gearhead, and Vehicle Expert. Also his initial wealth bonus is +2. finally he chooses his talent as he chose the Pilot vocation he decides to take Steady Hand. As indicated in the rules your 1st level vocation determines your initial vocational talent...so you MUST choose your 1st level talent from the talent tree of the vocation you choose at 1st level ONLY.

TALENTS

With regards to Talents, after 1st level you are free at ANY time you are entitled to choose a new talent to take one from any and all class vocation talent trees so long as you qualify to take it. Also no talent may be selected more than once unless it states specifically that this is allowed.

Now lets assume after some adventures "Curuthers Harkness" has now recieved enough experience to be 5th level Adventurer (Pilot), at this point he must choose a new Talent or Trait. At this time he can choose ANY talent listed for any of the vocations for ANY of the classes so long as he meets the prerequisites. This new talent does not have to be one of his vocation (pilot) unless he wishes to choose from that list. so he could take Improvsed disguise from the Investigator Classes Intelligence vocation or he could take Fast talk from the Scoundrel classes Con Artist vocation and so on... Or he could choose to forgoe any talent and instead choose a Trait.

The only other time besides 1st level your Talent selection is limited in some way and you HAVE to take a talent from only the vocations listed for the class you just gained a level in. Is when you are buying a talent with a feat pick instead of a normal talent pick. When you do that the talent HAS to be chosen from the vocations available only to the class you just went up in.
So for example at 3rd level we get a Feat pick.. Instead of choosing a Feat, Curuthers decides to take a talent, his talent must be chosen from only the Adventurer vocation talent tree lists not those of any other class.

MULTICLASSING AND VOCATIONS

To extend the example to illustrate multiclassing and how vocations work.. lets assume once "Curuthers Harkness" reaches 6th level, instead of becoming a 7th level Adventurer (Pilot) he decides to become a 1st level Noble. Although this is his first level of the noble class, he does NOT choose a new vocation, and so does not gain a bonus starting feat for a new vocation or any of the other benefits a vocation gives for a 1st level character.
This as explained above has no effect on him for purposes of choosing talents as vocations does not limit what talents you can take anyway beyond 1st level.

I hope this helps..

 

[Jack Daniel]

Yes, thank you, that does help a great deal. It would've been nice if the book had pointed out that talents aren't limited by class; I had been treating them like d20 Modern talents. Still, that does pose a problem for a character who starts in a vocation other than Ecclesiast or Medium, but wants to learn their talents later on, since the rules seem to expressly forbid it otherwise. Was that intentional?

 

[Neo]

Yes, thank you, that does help a great deal. It would've been nice if the book had pointed out that talents aren't limited by class; I had been treating them like d20 Modern talents.

It does point it out, check out the paragraph under the heading Talent/Trait on page 33, next to last sentance of that paragraph.

Still, that does pose a problem for a character who starts in a vocation other than Ecclesiast or Medium, but wants to learn their talents later on, since the rules seem to expressly forbid it otherwise. Was that intentional?

Not so much a problem really, if someone wishes to be an ecclesiast or medium they just ensure it is their starting vocation. This is simply to reflect those that are touched by the divine or whose ability to see the other world and interact with it tend to have the gift from the beginning even if it does not become apparent until later on.

Its intended more as a story tool to help ensure those that want such gifts are driven by concept to possess them and represent them, rather than just pick them up as added extras down the road.
Of course if that doesn't work for your own games needs, there is no real reason you couldn't house rule the prerequisite requirements for those two vocations so that they could be taken later as all other vocational talent trees.

 

[Nemo]

I'm a little confused. (typical)
Okay, at 1st level you pick your Class/Vocation, and that's the only time you get any bonus feats or whatever from it. Got that.
But if, after first level you can get any talent, why multiclass at all? Get better hit die, more skill points?
Anyone can get Turn Undead, Favoured Prey, Deduction etc. ANY Talent after 1st level, regardless of their current class? Oh yeah, and can anyone get one of the magic discipline feats and make a ritual a class skill, thus making anyone a potential magic user (priest,druid,whatever)??

It just seems so un-D&Dish. Maybe I'm just to focused on how specialized the classes are in D&D. Clerics turn undead. Thieves sneak up behind you. Barbarins go berserk. You know.
It's like after 1st level talents are feats.
So why multiclass? To get the better Level table benefits?

 

[Neo]

I'm a little confused. (typical)
Okay, at 1st level you pick your Class/Vocation, and that's the only time you get any bonus feats or whatever from it. Got that.
But if, after first level you can get any talent, why multiclass at all? Get better hit die, more skill points?
Anyone can get Turn Undead, Favoured Prey, Deduction etc. ANY Talent after 1st level, regardless of their current class? Oh yeah, and can anyone get one of the magic discipline feats and make a ritual a class skill, thus making anyone a potential magic user (priest,druid,whatever)??

It just seems so un-D&Dish. Maybe I'm just to focused on how specialized the classes are in D&D. Clerics turn undead. Thieves sneak up behind you. Barbarins go berserk. You know.
It's like after 1st level talents are feats.
So why multiclass? To get the better Level table benefits?

All classes have benefits specific only to them like BAB and save progression, defence and reputation progression, certain level based benefits, certain class skills open only to them, certain bonus feats only available through that class etc. But talents although derived from the theme of class vocations are not tied to them in the same way though.

It isn't really meant to be D&D in a different setting, the OGL simply refers to the fact that some of the content is the same, but only so much as was needed and deemed suitable for the theme, the rest was tweaked or newly created specifically to suit the genre. So there are some rules that are the same but there are just as many that arent as it isn't D&D.

As mentioned in an earlier post only someone who took Spiritualist could get Turn Undead as the Ecclesiast and Medium vocations are special cases, but pretty much anyone of any class could pick up other talents from the the other vocational talent trees yes. However this is both a good and a bad thing.. it would make a character more versatile but also less specialised. Someone who took talents from many trees would only have the lesser or nominal abilities from those trees, whereas someone who specialised in one or two would have far more higher tier talent benefits because of thier specialisation.

The problems comes from thinking classes and vocations are the same thing.. where really your vocations is what you did (past tense) and your class is what you are (present tense). It is simply a mechanism to reflect what you did prior to becoming an adventurer nothing more.

With regards to magical disciline feats and Ritual skill, yes anyone can learn them simply by spending a feat pick to pick up the relevant feat and therefore open up the pertinent ritual skill as a new class skill. (The feat picks in this instance are the ones gained at 1st, 3r,d and every 3 levels thereafter, not the bonus feats your class may provide).

However only someone with levels in Occultist class can gain actual psychic powers using the bonus feats from that class. And may even in some cases ignore some of the prerequisites. Whereas all other classes muse use thier base feats (the st, 3rd, and every 3 levels thereafter ones) in order to purchase a base psychic power.

This and further methods of developing powers beyond the base are explained on page 264-65.

hope this helps...

 

[MonkeyBoy]

Background Point cost:
The description for Trait says that it has a variable cost... where are the variable costs located. Yet, in the table below the description the cost is 1.
The Bonus Feat description says that the feat cost is 1 background point, but the table lists it as 2.

Which is correct?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Here's something that's confused me: once you've taken a class and chosen your starting vocation, how do you get into a different one? It seems kind of silly to say that if you start as an Adventurer (combatant), you may never become an Aventurer (hunter) or Adventurer (pilot). It's why the d20 system has such open multiclassing rules in the first place. So how would one go about "multivocationing"?

(And I'm still not too clear on regular multiclassing, either. You DO get a starting vocation for each class you take, right? Things just wouldn't work otherwise.)

VOCATIONS

Essentially whatever vocation you choose at 1st level is what you get..period. vocations represent what you did prior to 1st level in much the same way as occupations in D20 Modern.

*SNIP!*

It is interesting to see that this has been answered completely differently on another thread, by both Mongoose Bob and the original author of the game. In this case the other thread is right. Otherwise there would be no point in switching classes.

Sorry Neo.

The Auld Grump

 

[MonkeyBoy]

This is another nit-pick thing...

On page 33 it lists "Knowledge (earth and life sciences)" as a starting skill for Adventurers.

On page 34 it lists "Knowledge (earth and life sciences)" as an additional class skill for the Hunter Vocation with the Adventurer class.

So is the specific knowledge assigned to all Adventurers or just the Hunter vocation?

 

[MonkeyBoy]

Another thing I just came across, it's more of a clarification deal...

On page 33 in the "Heroic Surge" description, it says that the character can perform the Surge a number of times per day based on his character level.

The question: Is that just his current overall character level, or his adventurer character level?

Something else I have a question about: What is the use of the Favoured Prey talent when four of the five listed skills (Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive and Spot) are not even class skills for either the Adventurer class or the Hunter Vocation?

 

[MonkeyBoy]

Moving along to page 40:

In the workshop description it reads: "The character can select this talent more than once; each time it is selected it increases the size and number of machines he can build in it by one size category."

What does that mean?

Does it mean that if my inventor takes the Workshop talent twice he can build and maintain one Gargantuan, two Huge, three Large, nine Medium or

Does it mean that my inventor can build two Huge, four Large, 16 Medium machines?

 

[Erich]

Greetings all, I am glad I found these Forums.

My first Steampunk rules question is:

Can anyone tell me what is the total number of Talents a 20th level Human Hunter may have (excluding racial traits that give talents)?

Is it 7?
( 1[starting vocation] + 6 [levels 5,8,11,14,17,20] = 7 ) As per "The Adventurer" table on pg. 34.
or, Is it 14?
( 1[vocation] + 10[every odd level] + 3[levels 8,14, & 20] = 14 ) as per the second line of "Talents and Traits" paragraph on pg. 30; "A character gains a talent upon attaining each odd-numbered level in a class, including 1st level."

My players and I would appreciate some help before the next time I award them XP.

Thanks

 

[Erich]

As for a question in the post that started this thread:

3. Since Ghosts and vampires are undead, can they be turned by Ecclesiasts, priests, paladins, etc.?

The answer is: Ghosts, yes. Vampires are no. You can find the answer yourself under "BACKGROUNDS" (pg. 23) for those races.

Ghosts: Under the 5th item on their Racial Qualities list, the last line states ghosts are vulnerable to holy/unholy effects and weapons.

Vampires: Revenant Vampires are not undead, as stated in the 1st and 3rd sentences of the first paragraph which refers to their "...undead cousins..." and "...undead counterparts...".

The Mina character in the hit movie "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" is a good example of a SteamPunk revenant vampire. A living person, with vampiric abilities.

In fact, that entire movie is a good primer for a SteamPunk campaign.

Hope that helps.