State of Traveller, 2011...

Treebore

Mongoose
So what do you guys think about what Matt said about Traveller in the Mongoose State of Address?

I am very interested, now, in the Armada line.

Plus here is the meat of what he said about Traveller:

"Beyond that we have a good mix of core and Third Imperium books on the way – Library Data, Animal Encounters, The Traveller’s Aid Society, a big hardback packed full of new ships and deck plans, the Dynasty book that will allow you to not only run your own world/colony, but set up a great family that may continue to run things for centuries after, a la Dune. We will also be covering the Sword Worlds in more detail, the Deneb Sector is the next to get our treatment, Droyne will appear as an Alien Module, and we are looking at having a serious crack at re-imagining Trillion Credit Squadron, with the possibility of handling tournament play.

AND:

"One other thing we are wanting to take a look at, though no set title has been devised for this yet, is a new vehicle system for Traveller. The current two vehicle books have suffered from some criticism and, on a personal level, I am really not a fan of the construction system. We are therefore putting some thought into Traveller vehicles 2nd edition, as an obvious area where the rules could use some cleaning up. If this tome appears in 2011 (perhaps as a 200 page hardback that has a complete construction system, plus re-stats every vehicle we have produced for Traveller up to that point) then that will be a little too soon for our liking to the release of the original books – in which case, we will arrange a generous discount scheme for any purchasers of the originals.

This project is not set in stone by any means, but is on the wish list of what I would like to see for Traveller next year.

It is also worth pointing out (again!) that we have absolutely no plans at all for a second edition of the core rulebook. Any updates to the system will take the form of revised supplements (such as the soon-to-be-released 760 Patrons 2nd edition) and maybe, just maybe, a Traveller Companion, which could (just could!) contain revisions and updates to the core system itself. But, again, we have absolutely no plans to do that as of yet. Right now, it is just an idea. "

Go to the top of the main forum to read the rest of it if you have yet to do so.

Edit:

"Our internal reorganisation made the Campaign Guide slip its release date into early 2011, but this will be a book I have waited a long time to use myself. The basic premise is for the book to be the perfect referee’s helper, to the extent that it will be possible for him to sit down at the table, with no preparation whatsoever, and run an entire campaign with none of the players being any the wiser – perfect for the lazy/busy referee! This one is due in March, about the same month as the next Alien Module, Zhodani. "
 
Personally I would like more detailed time frames so I can budget more tightly. But I understand that they can't do that until it at least goes to the printers.
 
Treebore said:
"One other thing we are wanting to take a look at, though no set title has been devised for this yet, is a new vehicle system for Traveller. The current two vehicle books have suffered from some criticism and, on a personal level, I am really not a fan of the construction system. We are therefore putting some thought into Traveller vehicles 2nd edition, as an obvious area where the rules could use some cleaning up.

Sounds great. I HOPE they collect data as to what needs fixing and do thorough play test with people here before finalizing it.
 
It would also be nice to see the vehicle system automated too. I know I'm probably barking up a tree, but eventually somebody good with spreadsheets is gonna do it. Why not just add $5 to the cost of the book, slap a CD in the back and call it a day?
 
The two things I'm looking forward to are Dynasties and the new (and, hopefully, fixed) Vehicle books. Both would satisfy my gear-headiness and world-building cravings quite well. :)
 
phavoc said:
It would also be nice to see the vehicle system automated too. I know I'm probably barking up a tree, but eventually somebody good with spreadsheets is gonna do it. Why not just add $5 to the cost of the book, slap a CD in the back and call it a day?
Given that most people have internet access these days it would be better to make it a free download from the Mongoose website.
 
IanBruntlett said:
phavoc said:
It would also be nice to see the vehicle system automated too. I know I'm probably barking up a tree, but eventually somebody good with spreadsheets is gonna do it. Why not just add $5 to the cost of the book, slap a CD in the back and call it a day?
Given that most people have internet access these days it would be better to make it a free download from the Mongoose website.

The intent is to encourage them to automate it and recoup their costs through adding the program in the books. With the internet its likely it will appear online anyways at some point.
 
phavoc said:
The intent is to encourage them to automate it and recoup their costs through adding the program in the books. With the internet its likely it will appear online anyways at some point.

How is the additional expense of putting a CD-ROM in the book sleeve going to help recouping costs? You'd need to see a realy serious boost in sales for that to happen. After all you've got to not only recoup the costs of all thsoe CDs and the book assembly, but you've also got to recoup the costs of the software development. You might need to double sales to get anywhere, and there's no guarantee you're going to see any sales boost at all.

Simon Hibbs
 
Well, by automating the vehicle design system in a program, you could actually leave many of the complicated tables out of the book. That could reduce page count, which would reduce costs to offset the addition of the CD.

Ultimately though, by coding it into software, you could make the vehicle design system more complicated and complex, while at the same time making it easier to use. Making it easier to use, and crank out designs with could certainly go a long way towards helping with sales.
 
kristof65 said:
Well, by automating the vehicle design system in a program, you could actually leave many of the complicated tables out of the book. That could reduce page count, which would reduce costs to offset the addition of the CD. .

That would only work if the tables and such where available to everyone, without requiring a specific program to run, which everyone may not be able to.
 
phavoc said:
Why not just add $5 to the cost of the book, slap a CD in the back and call it a day?

Err - because it's not 1990 ?

If they were to build a spreadsheet then they should probably just upload it to the website for folks to download, or if they really wanted to charge for it then sell it via DTRPG or some other online store.
 
There are a ton of reasons why a software-only solution isn't up to scratch.

What if you want to be able to modify the system by adding extra options and features for my campaign? Tough!

What if you don't have the software or operating system required to use it? Again, you're out of luck.

There's a bug or errata, but the orriginal developer isn't available. With paper this just isn't a problem, but with software you have to find someone familiar with the same development system, and they have to figure out the specifics of how it was implemented before they can change a thing.

The software or OS it runs on goes out of date. You may laugh, but CT is more than 30 years old. Suppose it's design system had been written for CPM, or DOS or as a Visicalc spreadsheet?

Now I'm not at all against software. I'm totaly in favour of using it to automate procedures and as a convenience to players and GMs. You probably have no idea how close this concept is to my heart. But implementing this stuff in software is no easy task, believe you me.

I firmly believe that the right way to do this is to start with the Traveller written rules and form there develop tools and utilities to streamline the process and encourage experimentation and creativity from the fans by makign usign the rules significantly easier.

You can have flexibility in a manual system that is incredibly hard to build in to software. Providing a variant option in a manual process is just a case of writing a few paragraphs. Doing the same in software can easily require modifications to the user interface and the data structures, and therefore all the code that accesses that data, plus the data persistence code and file format.

Take the Redundant Systems rule on page 106. Just one paragraph in a text box.

Imagine having to implement that as an option in a desing system. You need to modify the user interface to add redundant systems and select their characteristics, the data structures have to support these duplicates and indicate which is the primary. All the code that accesses that data structure now needs to be modified. You need to implement this in the save system and plan for it in the file format. You may even need to be able to support the old file format without that option as well. If you want to add a custom option like that for your campaing, you'd have to get the source code and rewrite it yourself.

Simon Hibbs
 
simonh said:
There are a ton of reasons why a software-only solution isn't up to scratch.

What if you want to be able to modify the system by adding extra options and features for my campaign? Tough!

What if you don't have the software or operating system required to use it? Again, you're out of luck.

There's a bug or errata, but the orriginal developer isn't available. With paper this just isn't a problem, but with software you have to find someone familiar with the same development system, and they have to figure out the specifics of how it was implemented before they can change a thing.

The software or OS it runs on goes out of date. You may laugh, but CT is more than 30 years old. Suppose it's design system had been written for CPM, or DOS or as a Visicalc spreadsheet?

Now I'm not at all against software. I'm totaly in favour of using it to automate procedures and as a convenience to players and GMs. You probably have no idea how close this concept is to my heart. But implementing this stuff in software is no easy task, believe you me.

I firmly believe that the right way to do this is to start with the Traveller written rules and form there develop tools and utilities to streamline the process and encourage experimentation and creativity from the fans by makign usign the rules significantly easier.

You can have flexibility in a manual system that is incredibly hard to build in to software. Providing a variant option in a manual process is just a case of writing a few paragraphs. Doing the same in software can easily require modifications to the user interface and the data structures, and therefore all the code that accesses that data, plus the data persistence code and file format.

Take the Redundant Systems rule on page 106. Just one paragraph in a text box.

Imagine having to implement that as an option in a desing system. You need to modify the user interface to add redundant systems and select their characteristics, the data structures have to support these duplicates and indicate which is the primary. All the code that accesses that data structure now needs to be modified. You need to implement this in the save system and plan for it in the file format. You may even need to be able to support the old file format without that option as well. If you want to add a custom option like that for your campaing, you'd have to get the source code and rewrite it yourself.

Simon Hibbs

Umm... No, you are wrong. And let me tell you why you are wrong.

A properly designed program easily fixes this aspect via having tables store the specific data. Don't like the cost of a TL13 Mass Driver for your tank? Change it! Whoops, do we have errata there that needs to adjust the power plant factor for a TL14 fuel cell? Change it!

What you are describing is a crappily-designed piece of software that uses the very-shortsighted method of hardcoding everything. That's just plain dumb.... however dumb seems to be an epidemic in the software design industry at times.

Even if they did it via a spreadsheet template (or allowed some enterprising people to do it FOR them and release it as freeware), its still not going to be what you propose as a "limitation" for software.
 
Gee4orce said:
phavoc said:
Why not just add $5 to the cost of the book, slap a CD in the back and call it a day?

Err - because it's not 1990 ?

If they were to build a spreadsheet then they should probably just upload it to the website for folks to download, or if they really wanted to charge for it then sell it via DTRPG or some other online store.

The point is that when you buy the book, you get the software. It's not an uncommon concept. And it's also a reward of sorts for buying the book in the first place.

And you are correct, it is not 1990. I'm glad you are able to look at the calendar and notice the correct date! :)

As I stated previously, the entire point of putting it in the book and adding a nominal charge to help the recoup their costs is a win-win situation for everyone. We, the players, get a very useful tool in which to design the vehicles for our games. They, the publisher, get a happy gaming community, which in-turn helps generate additional sales.

It's called marketing and customer satisfaction.
 
IanBruntlett said:
phavoc said:
It's called marketing and customer satisfaction.
My computer that I could use when running Traveller games doesn't even have a CD/DVD drive :)

The machine I used back in the day had the luxury of a second 5.25" floppy disk drive! (This was almost on the level of having a HAL-9000 to hand)
 
Just use OpenOffice Base or the like. Provide documentation so that it can up fiddled with. That covers ~100% of computer users. Make it a free download (on torrent with hash if concerned about bandwidth).
 
Nuclear Fridge Magnet said:
IanBruntlett said:
phavoc said:
It's called marketing and customer satisfaction.
My computer that I could use when running Traveller games doesn't even have a CD/DVD drive :)

The machine I used back in the day had the luxury of a second 5.25" floppy disk drive! (This was almost on the level of having a HAL-9000 to hand)

I first started playing around with a machine that had 8" floppies. Whee!

Yeah, I remember the days of lugging your os/application/data around on a 5 1/4 disk. And for this rich people, they had TWO disk drives so you didn't have to even turn your floppy over.

Actually this brings up a good point. I rencently got the JTAS on CD-ROM. Inside one of the JTAS is a basic program for trading I think. If you still have your old computer, it would probably still run it. I could probably post it for anyone that was interested in a blast from the BASIC past.
 
phavoc said:
I first started playing around with a machine that had 8" floppies. Whee!

Yeah, I remember the days of lugging your os/application/data around on a 5 1/4 disk. And for this rich people, they had TWO disk drives so you didn't have to even turn your floppy over.

Actually this brings up a good point. I rencently got the JTAS on CD-ROM. Inside one of the JTAS is a basic program for trading I think. If you still have your old computer, it would probably still run it. I could probably post it for anyone that was interested in a blast from the BASIC past.

Yep, the good-old days. Saving to audio tape, punching "Write protect" holes on the other side of your SSDD floppy (and occasionally having to cut open a damaged disk to "rescue" the media. FORTH, LOGO, PILOT, BASIC, 6502 assemblers.... Good times.

To be honest, I would not go back. :)

BTW, and the reason I'm responding - there's a free program called "Chipmunk BASIC" that will run lots of old basic programs. I believe it's actually a GW-BASIC clone with some extra features, though Applesoft is pretty close, and I bet could be ported pretty easily. Well, as much as *anything* is easy in BASIC, which it isn't. :)
 
Oh... cassette tapes... that brings back the sad end of my early programming days. I had an Atari 400 (Star Raiders anyone?), that had the membrane keyboard. I spent hours and hours developing a computer program and saved it to tape... and then lost it all!!! Either due to crappy cassettes or crappy recorder, or both. I don't know which, but I got so damn frustrated with it I stopped programming till floppies came around!

Thanks for the heads up on the BASIC program.
 
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