Starship Troopers Evolution

[Lawdog1700]

I see this as a recurring problem with Mongoose. A product is announced and then put off for so long that players lose interest in the game.

My game group here in Colorado played B5: ACTA like crazy when it came out. Dozens and dozens of games. We found the system to be well balanced and incredibly fun. My group (who are ALL Star Fleet Battles fanatics) all thought it was perhaps the best space game we had ever played.

Then, we learned that the rules were going to change in A Sky Full of Stars. We heard about it in February and it was supposed to be out in May or June, I think. So...we stopped playing the game until SFOS came out. We waitied...and waited... It didn't come out until August or September (sorry, I can't remember now) and it really wrecked the balance of the game, from our experience. So...we played about 25 games and stopped.

Now...here comes Armageddon...with promised rule fixes. However, we haven't really played the game in MONTHS. Nobody really cares anymore.

Unfortunately, this has happened with Starship Troopers too. I expect that we will not see Battlefield Evolution in January...probably more like June, 2007. That's too bad because I think if the company could support its games in a timely fashion that these games would do GREAT. I think Mongoose makes great games.

I don't mean to offend, because Matt and other "mongeese" have always been really helpful, but I simply think that I will check back in January and probably see that everything has been pushed back several months...and that will likely be the end of Starship Troopers.

 

[mthomason]

But I have computer games that do that, and I like chess .

Heh, same here

What I mean is that it just plays *smoothly* - you look at an M.I. trooper and don't have to look at it as a playing piece - you can look at it as a trooper, and play it as such in the game. You find yourself thinking more in terms of real military tactics, and less in terms of game tactics.

In other words, you find yourself playing out a battle, rather than playing with playing pieces that have stats attached to them. The tactical element moves to give the player that understands military tactics the advantage over the player that has memorized the rulebook.

The rules are there in such a consise form you can almost memorize them (chess analogy: when was the last time you looked at the chess rulebook during a game, then think of the last time you looked at the SST rulebook during a game), the stats and unit-specific special rules are nicely arranged on cards so you can have them on the table for quick reference.

The only real difference is the most important one - you lose the "40K factor", the bit where you do something stupid because you forgot that piece has a special rule in operation when within 6" of that piece, and lose the game because of it. You can think more in terms of how you maneuver units around the board to close in on those bugs and in getting a tactical position advantage, and less in terms of trying to manipulate the situation into a rules advantage.

To put it into a better context: it plays more like a wargame, and less like moving playing pieces around.

 

[Bluefool]

[

What I mean is that it just plays *smoothly* - you look at an M.I. trooper and don't have to look at it as a playing piece - you can look at it as a trooper, and play it as such in the game. You find yourself thinking more in terms of real military tactics, and less in terms of game tactics.

In other words, you find yourself playing out a battle, rather than playing with playing pieces that have stats attached to them. The tactical element moves to give the player that understands military tactics the advantage over the player that has memorized the rulebook.

The rules are there in such a consise form you can almost memorize them (chess analogy: when was the last time you looked at the chess rulebook during a game, then think of the last time you looked at the SST rulebook during a game), the stats and unit-specific special rules are nicely arranged on cards so you can have them on the table for quick reference.

The only real difference is the most important one - you lose the "40K factor", the bit where you do something stupid because you forgot that piece has a special rule in operation when within 6" of that piece, and lose the game because of it.

Hmm...OK, I'm coming around a bit now...the how often I check the rulebook part did grab my attention...

But it does bring back my concern that the units will be largely prepackaged, and I can't construct my army so that it is signifigantly diffrent then the next army over. Can we still do things like choose from a list of heroic traits? Will my MI squad be basically the same as every other MI squad?

 

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Holy Crap! I go to bed, there are 4 pages and when I take a break at work and skip on over here there are 18!

After reading all the rants and such, I'm in. I love the fact that Matthew and Mongoose are going out of their way to cater to both those who want to paint and those who don't.

My LFGS does not carry SST because there are too many stores within a 30 min. drive to compete with, but this may just let me convince them to rethink thier position. The othe stores mainly carry GW stuff with a smattering of SST and other you paint'em minis games, so they are more likely not to be a serious competitor for my LFGS in this new market area.

Matthew, what do I have to do to help with playtesting? I'm completely sold on this and want to jump on board and help.

 

[Lawdog1700]

I do agree...pre-painted is the way to go though.

 

[tneva82]

Holy Crap! I go to bed, there are 4 pages and when I take a break at work and skip on over here there are 18!

Imagine my suprise when I log in to see if announcement came and see 13 page thread already :lol: Took a "while" to read through.

 

[Mac V]

Matt, I saw you mention a terrain system earlier. I would assume that other than buildings, it ould ork for all the games? WHat kind of timeframe are you looking on that. 1 year 2?

 

[MaxSteiner]

The only real difference is the most important one - you lose the "40K factor", the bit where you do something stupid because you forgot that piece has a special rule in operation when within 6" of that piece, and lose the game because of it. You can think more in terms of how you maneuver units around the board to close in on those bugs and in getting a tactical position advantage, and less in terms of trying to manipulate the situation into a rules advantage.

Im sorry but can we drop the freaking 40k slating now? Im sick of it, and now that theres a new edition coming out we've lost what little high ground remained. ~And its dangerous ground now since 40k fans can say stuff like, at least when theres a new edition of 40k GW doesn't just drop all releases till its out.
Besides if it is SST then talents would open up sittuations where a trooper has special rules attached to him which you'd have to look up, I'm talking talents!

 

[shakespear]

Have you seen GW's numbers? Nobody is buying it anymore..

 

[emperorpenguin]

Have you seen GW's numbers? Nobody is buying it anymore..

that's not exactly the most factual statement I've ever seen..... :roll:

 

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Holy Crap! I go to bed, there are 4 pages and when I take a break at work and skip on over here there are 18!

Imagine my suprise when I log in to see if announcement came and see 13 page thread already :lol: Took a "while" to read through.

Tell me about it. It took me forever to catch up, but now I feel thoroughly edumacated.

 

[Gauntlet-]

Part one of prediction has come true

my semi Local Game store has announced they are dropping it, and all SST stuff is now 40% off.

Huh surprise surprise

maybe ill start hordes afterall

 

[MongooseMatt]

Gimme a battle report of the new system, and I'll be frolicking in glee once again!

We already have that sorted for you in the next issue

I hadn't thought about printing the rules in S&P - we might just do that later in the year!

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

Part one of prediction has come true

my semi Local Game store has announced they are dropping it, and all SST stuff is now 40% off.

Huh surprise surprise

maybe ill start hordes afterall

Have you ever thought the REAL reason they are selling it cheap, is because they can't see it selling when the new Pre-Painted Stuff comes out!

 

[shakespear]

Have you seen GW's numbers? Nobody is buying it anymore..

that's not exactly the most factual statement I've ever seen..... :roll:

Let me try again.

Due to price increases, the overhead of having "offical" stores, and better rule systems gaining popularity, gamers have either stopped purchasing altogether or have started buying their minis used. This has lead to GW being in the red and sales numbers being down.

 

[irondog068]

they look good but,
I think I still like my paint jobs a lot better and it has to be cheaper buying "raw" figures.

But, If it keeps unpainted figures off the gaming table I am all for it as long as I can still get raw figures. Part of the fun is building and painting a army.

Irondog

 

[MongooseMatt]

Have you seen GW's numbers? Nobody is buying it anymore..

that's not exactly the most factual statement I've ever seen..... :roll:

I wish people weren't buying Mongoose products to the extent they aren't buying GW's

 

[MongooseMatt]

Matt, I saw you mention a terrain system earlier. I would assume that other than buildings, it ould ork for all the games? WHat kind of timeframe are you looking on that. 1 year 2?

No dates set yet.

 

[MaxSteiner]

Have you thought Lt. that this might be the final straw for the LGS?
Anyone who's still supporting SST has been fighting an uphill struggle, and now they've been told that there are no new products till some time next year when they are replaced, and that all the exisiting books are gonna be available for free. Speaking from a business sense you wanna get all you're existing SST stuff off the shelves as soon as possible, so you can put a product that'll see some support this year and might actually attract new customers.

Not saying they wont choose to support it in April, but till then that stock is just wasting space, like the system or no.

 

[Quark]

This was definately a smart move in terms of buisiness and bringing in a whole new crowd, so I applaud MGP for that, but it's a sad day for an "Old
School" gamer like myself. For me it's always been 60/40 painting and modeling vs. playing. How well will these new pre-paints take paint/primer?
Will they be convertable, or am I essentially buying a larger scale version
of the Axis and Allies minis? I'm on a break at work, and don't have time to read this entire thread (only got about 3.5pages in), so forgive me if that's been covered, but for the last of a dying breed like myself this will probably be the end of my SST days. It's the right decision for them to make (I'm not griping or anything like that), but it just doesn't appeal to me. Also, those two tanks are painted better than 90% of us could do? That's pretty sad-I've seen MUCH better paint jobs than that done by mere beginners. As pre-paints go they don't look so spectacular. The exo's do look good though (for pre-paints). Does this mean poor Adrian is out of a job?

Also, I don't think the market in my area is going to wait a year. That probably effectively killed the game here. I had a ton (at least 15 which is huge compared to what we've had lately) of people waiting for the Forth to come out this fall so that they could get into the game starting with those minis (I know-that's a ton of people playing the same army, but it's better than what we've got now). I doubt they'll care to wait any longer.