Starship and Hyperspace

Waylander.

Mongoose
Does every ships which do not have their own jump engines can go to hyperspace using the Jump gates ?

I see that you have to make a technical (space travel) 10 to open a jump gate. Should'nt it be a computer use ? Because I suppose that you have to send a signal to the jump gate and nothing else ? and what about a gate which is controlled by space station or something like that ?
 
Even the smallest ships like shuttles and fighters seem to move there comfortably. I would say that the minimum requirements for hyperspace traveling is ability to transmit and receive data from the jump gate, thrusters and an air-thight hull.

I have also one question keeps buggering me about hyperspace traveling: The rules seem to indicate that all ships can travel from beacon to beacon without coming out of the hyperspace. However in the series we see many incidents where raiders are attacking ships that are coming to or leaving B5 in normal space near jump gates where there are no bases. Why did they jump to normal space at the gates? It would seem much more logical that they would keep in the hyperspace all the way till their destination. Only logical reason I have come to is that they jump to normal space, so that they can calculate the next jump without having to worry about hyperspace "winds".
 
Only thing I can think of is that travelling through hyperspace you try to stay on the main lanes in case you hit trouble, so instead of taking a direct route you go via a few gates. When you get to one of your gates, you could just transfer your beacon lock, but if you screw that up then you're drifting in hyperspace. Safer to jump out using the Jump Gate, give your systems the once over, and then use the gate to get back in with a new beacon lock.

LBH
 
Yeah, it's probably a safety thing. Drop out of hyperspace, check your systems, get a fresh lock on the beacon without worrying about drifting down the gravitational incline. A ship in a hurry could just zoom from beacon to beacon to beacon if necessary.
 
I asked the same thing in a thread some months back and someone replied with the idea that every so often on a long haul you pop out of hyperspace to acquire a fresh lock and to check news which probably doesn't get beamed into hyperspace as communications do.
 
lastbesthope said:
Only thing I can think of is that travelling through hyperspace you try to stay on the main lanes in case you hit trouble, so instead of taking a direct route you go via a few gates. When you get to one of your gates, you could just transfer your beacon lock, but if you screw that up then you're drifting in hyperspace. Safer to jump out using the Jump Gate, give your systems the once over, and then use the gate to get back in with a new beacon lock.

It should be noted that the various systems have more than one jump gate. The Epsilon system has a secondary gate as well (mentioned in the first season I do believe).

There is a maximum number of beacons routes that can be safely attached to each jump gate (around 3 or 4...) and the way the various systems get around that is to have a secondary gate far enough apart from the primary so as not to interfer with the signal.

The consequence of this is that these two gates are not linked by a beacon route (again, interference) so to transfer from one set of beacons to the other, you have to travel between the gates in real space - the perfect place to mount ambushes for raiders...
 
The safety reason and the second gate seem to be the best reasons. I have to figure out which way I'm going to go in my campaign.
 
frobisher said:
It should be noted that the various systems have more than one jump gate. The Epsilon system has a secondary gate as well (mentioned in the first season I do believe).

I'm rackjing my brains but I can't think of it, though I have a vague niggling sensation that you're right.

(That's gonna annoy me now!)

LBH
 
The "secondary jumpgate" IS mentioned but I can't remember when either... If I remember well it's a distress call from "a ship near the secondary jumpgate" that is being attacked by raiders. I think it is very near the beginning of the serries, certainly no later than the beginning of the second season.
 
to be honest its just another show inconsistency

we see whitestars flying all the way to Earth/Z'ha'dum from B5 without leaving hyperspace
but at the beginning of season 2 Sheridan when told about the Trigati remarks "that'd put them 2 jumps away from B5"

so JMS sometimes thought about them jumping several times to get where they wanted and at other times just turned hyperspace into a motorway
 
so JMS sometimes thought about them jumping several times to get where they wanted and at other times just turned hyperspace into a motorway

I'm wondering how this is an inconsistency. I mean its mentioned many times throughout the show that hyperspace has a lot of gravitational eddies, well couldn't these impact on travel times and methods. From some systems to other systems this might be a based on one route, a highway sort of system. From other systems this might be through the need for using multiple jump gates. Hyperspace is a constant shifting expanse that is very different from place to place and time to time. That is until you get First One-level technology. :D
 
emperorpenguin said:
we see whitestars flying all the way to Earth/Z'ha'dum from B5 without leaving hyperspace
but at the beginning of season 2 Sheridan when told about the Trigati remarks "that'd put them 2 jumps away from B5"

I can't remember where, but I know I read somewhere that Vorlon and Minbari ships do not get lost in yperspace due to their very advanced engine and navigational systems. Minbari ships that are not as well maintained (like a sharlin that has not put into base for a decade) might suffer from navigation difficulties and have to stick to the major routes or risk getting lost.
 
Does every ships which do not have their own jump engines can go to hyperspace using the Jump gates?
Yup.

I have also one question keeps buggering me about hyperspace traveling: The rules seem to indicate that all ships can travel from beacon to beacon without coming out of the hyperspace. However in the series we see many incidents where raiders are attacking ships that are coming to or leaving B5 in normal space near jump gates where there are no bases. Why did they jump to normal space at the gates? It would seem much more logical that they would keep in the hyperspace all the way till their destination.
Of course, it is also a question of making cargo runs - if your freighter needs to drop off or take on cargo, it needs to travel from the jumpgate to the transfer station, and not every such transfer point is as close to a jumpgate as B5. In another thread some guys did sone calculations... and the mongoose-cited speed of "1 day per AU" is a good approximation; that means a freighter travelling from earth to the jumpgate at Io would need between four and seven days, depending on the current location of earth on it's orbit (if it's close to Jupiter, less travel, if it's on the other side of the sun, more distance - also because you can't fly through tzhe sun, but have to go around).

Yeah, it's probably a safety thing. Drop out of hyperspace, check your systems, get a fresh lock on the beacon without worrying about drifting down the gravitational incline. A ship in a hurry could just zoom from beacon to beacon to beacon if necessary.
Unlikely. Remember, beacons are like rope bridges strung between systems - no calculations needed. And with raiders around it's safer to stay in hyperspace... if you can...

I asked the same thing in a thread some months back and someone replied with the idea that every so often on a long haul you pop out of hyperspace to acquire a fresh lock and to check news which probably doesn't get beamed into hyperspace as communications do.
See above. Safer to stay where the raiders aren't... and get your newsfeed when you enter your target system.

It should be noted that the various systems have more than one jump gate. The Epsilon system has a secondary gate as well (mentioned in the first season I do believe).
There is a maximum number of beacons routes that can be safely attached to each jump gate (around 3 or 4...) and the way the various systems get around that is to have a secondary gate far enough apart from the primary so as not to interfer with the signal.
The consequence of this is that these two gates are not linked by a beacon route (again, interference) so to transfer from one set of beacons to the other, you have to travel between the gates in real space - the perfect place to mount ambushes for raiders...
we see whitestars flying all the way to Earth/Z'ha'dum from B5 without leaving hyperspace
Very true... but I suppose that also depends on the quality of the sensors the ship has.
When different beacon routes are "connected" to different jumpgates, Warships with good sensors can lock onto the next beacon from hyperspace, while Freighters with myopic sensors may not be able to do that, and need to enter normal space, travel from their exit jumpgate top the entry jumpgate of the next beacon route, and go on.

but at the beginning of season 2 Sheridan when told about the Trigati remarks "that'd put them 2 jumps away from B5"
so JMS sometimes thought about them jumping several times to get where they wanted and at other times just turned hyperspace into a motorway
Well... that "2 jumps" might be a matter of speech and measure - if you need to traverse two beacon connections it's "two jumps", even if your ship has good enough sensors to hop from the end of one route to the next without leaving hyperspace.

I'm wondering how this is an inconsistency. I mean its mentioned many times throughout the show that hyperspace has a lot of gravitational eddies, well couldn't these impact on travel times and methods. From some systems to other systems this might be a based on one route, a highway sort of system. From other systems this might be through the need for using multiple jump gates. Hyperspace is a constant shifting expanse that is very different from place to place and time to time. That is until you get First One-level technology.
Good thought. It means you can never know... even a warship with good sensors may sometimes be forced to go to realspace to change beacons when some hyperspace storm clouds their receptios - and that would explain why sometimes they have to go to realspace, and sometimes not, on the very same routes!

I can't remember where, but I know I read somewhere that Vorlon and Minbari ships do not get lost in yperspace due to their very advanced engine and navigational systems.
True about Vorlons - they are first ones after all. But I never heard that about Minbari - only that they can travel a greater distance from the beacons, because their better sensors can detect a beacon at a greater distance then most other younger races.

Vorlons and other first ones (and most likely also half the mid-born races, as well as the Technomages to some lesser degree) don't need hyperspace beacons at all; their sensors are good enough to navigate hyperspace (and many first one sensors can even "see" directly into realspace from hyperspace - that's how the Shadows manage their nice ambushes all the time; even some younger races have managed that trick to some degree or another, though most still need some observer in realspace to transmit sensort images or coordinates into hyperspace - see "In the Beginning" or "Endgame")
 
ShadowScout said:
Does every ships which do not have their own jump engines can go to hyperspace using the Jump gates?
Yup.

I have also one question keeps buggering me about hyperspace traveling: The rules seem to indicate that all ships can travel from beacon to beacon without coming out of the hyperspace. However in the series we see many incidents where raiders are attacking ships that are coming to or leaving B5 in normal space near jump gates where there are no bases. Why did they jump to normal space at the gates? It would seem much more logical that they would keep in the hyperspace all the way till their destination.
Of course, it is also a question of making cargo runs - if your freighter needs to drop off or take on cargo, it needs to travel from the jumpgate to the transfer station, and not every such transfer point is as close to a jumpgate as B5. In another thread some guys did sone calculations... and the mongoose-cited speed of "1 day per AU" is a good approximation; that means a freighter travelling from earth to the jumpgate at Io would need between four and seven days, depending on the current location of earth on it's orbit (if it's close to Jupiter, less travel, if it's on the other side of the sun, more distance - also because you can't fly through tzhe sun, but have to go around).

This is the obvious reason in most systems and I have taken it into consideration. However it does not explain how the raiders could attack ships in systems like Sector 49 where there are no place to drop cargo to. The ships must have had other reasons to return to normal space.
 
Vortex said:
They might just have been travelling between two jumpgates like ShadowScout suggested...

That is possible, but there would be no need for several jump gates at Sector 49 since there are just two jump routes: one to Proxima and one to B5.
 
migutse said:
Vortex said:
They might just have been travelling between two jumpgates like ShadowScout suggested...

That is possible, but there would be no need for several jump gates at Sector 49 since there are just two jump routes: one to Proxima and one to B5.

Unless it's got old, "creaky" gates that were bought second hand from the Centauri and can only accept a single beacon route..?

The evidence from the show suggests that transit is required in real space at that location, so that seems like a logical kind of explanation to me.
 
frobisher said:
migutse said:
Vortex said:
They might just have been travelling between two jumpgates like ShadowScout suggested...

That is possible, but there would be no need for several jump gates at Sector 49 since there are just two jump routes: one to Proxima and one to B5.

Unless it's got old, "creaky" gates that were bought second hand from the Centauri and can only accept a single beacon route..?

The evidence from the show suggests that transit is required in real space at that location, so that seems like a logical kind of explanation to me.

Yeah, it's possible. However I remember from the show that many ships flew from B5 to Earth and back (for example Sheridan on Whitestar) without coming out from hyperspace. Since Sector 49 is by far the most direct route to Earth, this suggest that it is possible at least for some ships to fly directly there using only one jumpgate.

I still prefer the reasoning that coming out of the hyperspace is some kind of a safety measure. I think that in my game I will allow the players to fly from system to system without having to come out from hyperspace. However if they want to "take 10" or "take 20" when calculating the route, they have to come out of the hyperspace at jumpgates. This way they don't have to always come out, but then they risk beign lost in hyperspace with a bad roll.
 
migutse said:
Yeah, it's possible. However I remember from the show that many ships flew from B5 to Earth and back (for example Sheridan on Whitestar) without coming out from hyperspace. Since Sector 49 is by far the most direct route to Earth, this suggest that it is possible at least for some ships to fly directly there using only one jumpgate.

I can't remember if this survived into the Mongoose game or not, but certainly in the Babylon Project (from which the jump route map is descended) there was direct jump route between Earth and B5 that came on line in 2260ish and was for military use only (better sensors...). That's the beacon route that the "One Jupers" were following.
 
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