Squadrons and Centauri

[B5freak]

I admittedly haven't read through this entire thread, but on this page I've noticed the argument that squadroning isn't a tremendous negative to initiative. I would counter that the impact is greatly dependent on how many Boresight weapons you have in the fleet.

I would love to put my EA ships into squadrons, but with EA being so dependent on Boresight weapons, I need every initiative sink I can get. Yes, I know EA has missiles, but the main guns on the Orestes, Hyperion, Omega, Marathon, and Warlock are all Boresight.

In contrast, the Centauri don't rely on Boresights for their heavy-hitters, so when it comes to initiative all they need worry about is keeping the enemy in their fire arcs.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

In contrast, the Centauri don't rely on Boresights for their heavy-hitters, so when it comes to initiative all they need worry about is keeping the enemy in their fire arcs...

...and denying the enemy boresights. That's the other primary use of init sinks that no-one in this absurd argument seems to remember.

 

[Omnipotent]

I`m thinking in the same lines here, limit the amount of ships to one less then now or just say you can´t squadron up ships of higher level then patrol and maybe maximum one skirmish level ship per squadron/pentagon.

The problem I see here is the overpowered Centauri skirmish lvl ships, that is if you would raise the bar to skirmish lvl ships or below only. Then again EA :lol: would get an advantage with those nasty hermes and tethys patrol lvl ships if you would be able to squadron them up. Again, though, EA would sacrifice ini sinks, so maybe limiting the lvl of ships to one skirmish lvl ship and the rest to patrol lvl ships would be a working solution, it would still make big games faster, but the games would not be over on turn two.

Cratz what do u think ....and of course the rest of you

 

[CratZ]

I dont think the main problem lies in the priority of the ships. Limiting squadrons to certain priority only, feels too artificial a solution and also encourages ppl to even more play with swarm fleets. Not to mention it certainly would be very biased towards certain races. (Think about the poor shadows )

 

[Target]

Limiting it to priority is a better solution than just patrol & skirmish + limit to 3 ships. We never changed to the new rules in this aspect, it seemed a little insane.
I'd would be just as fearful of squadron of Olympus as Vorchan. The reason everyone is so scared of Vorchans is they are dead easy to use & you always tend to point them at something you can vape in 1 salvo, if you don't you are in real trouble.
Also think we need Manuever to shield SA needs to come back as well.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The problem I see here is the overpowered Centauri skirmish lvl ships, that is if you would raise the bar to skirmish lvl ships or below only.

That'd be ok if the Centauri skirmish ships were overpowered, but they're not. What they are is great at alpha-strikes on weak opponents, and a squadron of such ships maximises that ability. I had a squadron of three Vorchans destroy an Avenger in one turn's firing... but I suspect a squadron of Ka'Tocs could have done the same thing.

 

[Da Boss]

Minbari squadrons are not fun to face.............

 

[Tolwyn]

Dilgar Squadrons armed with dozens of Torpedoes and Bolters, too :roll:

 

[H]

The problem I see here is the overpowered Centauri skirmish lvl ships, that is if you would raise the bar to skirmish lvl ships or below only.

That'd be ok if the Centauri skirmish ships were overpowered, but they're not. What they are is great at alpha-strikes on weak opponents, and a squadron of such ships maximises that ability. I had a squadron of three Vorchans destroy an Avenger in one turn's firing... but I suspect a squadron of Ka'Tocs could have done the same thing.

so you are saying the cheeesy Demos is not overpowered?! oh my!!

 

[Burger]

The Demos does indeed smell of Camenbert.

 

[Locutus9956]

The Demos is indeed a TEENSY bit too good but its not that bad, all it really needs is couple of AD knocked off it to fix it.

I wouldnt rank it among the REALLY broken monstosities out there (the Laser Tethys I personally think is totally sick and wrong...)

 

[Lord David the Denied]

so you are saying the cheeesy Demos is not overpowered?! oh my!!

Stop stirring, Scouse. We've been over this...

 

[Clanger]

If the Demos is not over powered why do we not see Vorchans instead of Demos in fleets?

 

[Hash]

...because Centauri players think the Vorchan is a bit too cheesy and so go for the Demos instead as a sporting gesture of good will? :lol:

 

[Da Boss]

IMHO the Demos is too good - take some AD of its Ion Cannons, not as convinced that the Vorchan is................

 

[David Anla Shok']

If the Demos is not over powered why do we not see Vorchans instead of Demos in fleets?

Just because it's trendy. Really. Honest...

 

[Lord David the Denied]

If the Demos is not over powered why do we not see Vorchans instead of Demos in fleets?

Who's "we?" You'll rarely see any Demos in my fleets.

 

[Triggy]

If the Demos is not over powered why do we not see Vorchans instead of Demos in fleets?

Who's "we?" You'll rarely see any Demos in my fleets.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a Vorchan in a tournament. Frankly 95+% of players think the Demos is broken and the most broken ship in the game at that. The Vorchan is a bit more of a touchy issue but there are definitely supporters in both camps for and against it being overpowered.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Needing a 2AD tweak doesn't make it the most broken ship in the game. People are crying because they see Demos used well. It's a little bit too good, but that's not the same as the most broken ship ever...

 

[Triggy]

Needing a 2AD tweak doesn't make it the most broken ship in the game. People are crying because they see Demos used well. It's a little bit too good, but that's not the same as the most broken ship ever...

I never said ever, and I don't agree with a 2AD tweak either...roughly 3-4AD brings it back down to the Vorchan and the Vorchan is probably slightly overpowered too.

Given that most people would vote the Demos as the most broken ship in 2nd ed. (excluding the Gaim), I'd say it probably is too.