Species Maximum INT and POW

[vistikos]

Just a question re species maximum INT and POW.

Certain MRQ modules/scenarios have human characters with stats of POW 23, the species max for humans being stated as 21.

Is there a process (Advanced Training, Draconic Illumination, HeroQuesting, etc) that will allow PCs to advance beyond the species max for non-physical characteristics?

Or is this wishful thinking re PCs?

Thoughts please... :roll:

 

[Inspector Zero]

Is there a process (Advanced Training, Draconic Illumination, HeroQuesting, etc) that will allow PCs to advance beyond the species max for non-physical characteristics?

Anything is possible with intervention from a deity - some grant gifts/boons that raise non-raiseable characteristics.

Just as likely there is a typo in the publication. Where did you spot them?

 

[vistikos]

The two examples I can find are as follows:

Dara Happa Stirs:
The Lady Forlorn - POW 23 [Page 107]

Fronela:
Dedenkir - POW 23 [Page 96]

 

[Inspector Zero]

The two examples I can find are as follows:

Dara Happa Stirs:
The Lady Forlorn - POW 23 [Page 107]

Fronela:
Dedenkir - POW 23 [Page 96]

These look like straightforwad errors to me. First, the stat blocks for the two (very different) individuals in the two books are the same suggesting that one original NPC file has been used to create both entries. Likely as both books are written by The Great Loz. Certainly there are other errors with Dedenkir such as the claim he will cast Damage Resistence on himself - he has nowhere near the level of skills to do this. It looks like there might have been an original draft in which Dedenkir was totally kick-ass which was then adjusted after playtesting.

Anyhow - TGL is a frequent visitor to these parts so I'm sure he can put the record straight.

 

[Loz]

They're clearly twins, separated at birth.

But the POW entries are correct - not typos. As to how they got to these lofty heights is down to GMs to decide/make-up...

 

[vistikos]

Hmmm...

Are species maximums absolute for all members of that species?

In RQ3 the species maximum was determined by adding the minimum roll to the maximum roll, e.g. for human POW on a roll of 3D6 this was 3+18 = 21.

However, if there was a regional variation due to a traditional bias toward scholarship (INT), magic (POW), farming (STR) or a military culture (DEX and CON) a roll of 2D6+6 might be more appropriate.

In this case the species maximum for 2D6+6 would be determined by adding 8+18 = 26.

In the above case if a character has a characteristic of 23 there is only a 15% chance of improving the characteristic in question. This is close to describing our friends Dedenkir and the Lady Forlorn.

However, these luminaries probably spend 90%+ of their time in meditation and cult business - not much fun and/or adventure to be had.

It might be interesting to apply the above to my old hobby-horse, the Brithini: Caste-related stats deterimined on the basis of 1D6+12? (a max of 31?!) Once again, very narrow scope for adventure.

This probably pushes the Brithini into NPC territory, a lá DiamondDwarfs, but I defer to that venerable Orlanthi Great Shaman, Gr'g Staff-Ford, who regards the Brithini as pre-human anyway.

As always re the above Game Balance should be Paramount.

 

[RosenMcStern]

The domain of character generation should not be mistaken for the domain of in-game events. All restrictions apply to characteristics gained at character creation, or increased through standard means. When something game-related happens, racial maximums do not always apply. Events taking place during heroquests are often exempt from these rules. So these criteria may apply to player characters at the start of a campaign, but may not apply to characters who survive past the end of said campaign. They certainly do not apply to major characters with which players interact during the campaign.

 

[Runefang]

you could get a 23 max by being runetouched with the man rune which gives you a +1 POW (3d6+1, so 4 and 19, 23), thats how we ruled it.

My trollkin got a +3 POW from a bite of Eurmal's Crumbs. Of course the next guy to try it fell over dead, sigh, such is the luck of the die roll.

 

[Simulacrum]

I have always treated each +6 as a D6 die for the purpose of determining maximums - and max is maximum rollable plus number of dice. So all human characteristics have a hardcoded species max of 21 irrespective of whether they are 3D6 or 2D6+6. The +6 is there to load the dice and deliver a higher average, not change the nature of the beast.

 

[ThatGuy]

I have always played with 21 as species maximum, only to be exceeded through magical means- so Rune touched, gifts, or some other strange event (perhaps chaos touched for example).

I also rule that this exceeding extends to training stats as well. So if you have a STR of 12, get rune touched for an additional point of STR and get a gift for another, your ceiling is now effectively 23. And so on.

Thats how I play it.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Are species maximums absolute for all members of that species?

The rules say "cannot naturally exceed 21" for all attributes. How the maxima for non-humans are figured is not stated.

In RQ3 the species maximum was determined by adding the minimum roll to the maximum roll, e.g. for human POW on a roll of 3D6 this was 3+18 = 21.

There was never any mechanism for raising INT or SIZ so it was a moot point anyway. Most GMs I know used max + number of dice rolled, +1 per +6 fixed modifier, which is consistent with the maxima listed in MRQ2. In fact, the AHRQ3 rules say that DEX and APP are limited to half again the original rolled value, there is no limit of 21 on these. Only POW has "maximum roll plus minimum roll" as the limit, and only because that's how you figure the chance to increase. There's no reason in the AHRQ3 rules that it can't go above that through means other than POW gain rolls.