Sorry another tank move & shoot querry

[retaf33c]

If you take the special movement you have to take a ready action in the previous turn - so effectively you save a shoot action from the previous turn and if you fire you still have to take the re-roll. Same principle.

Actually, you don't need to be ready from a previous turn though you can. For example. Action #1, ready. Action #2, make your special movement and shoot reroll hit. Repeat next turn.

This is far more desireble in most cases than: Action #1 Shoot, reroll hit, Action #2 move 4 inches. (3 inches if you are moving a Sherman) Repeat next turn.

As far as rerolling if you move. I have no problem with that. I was just commenting on moving after you shoot. Why should you have to reroll if the tank didn't move the previous turn and you shoot as the first action on the next turn, and then move. There is no explaination of why this is so, and because of that it appears to makes no sense.

 

[Desiato]

From my point of view it is important to use the re-roll rule for normal move & shoot combinations, because otherwise tanks without turret are too strong compared to tanks with turret.

Generally tanks cannot react and the main gun can only shoot once per turn. A tank with turret can shoot in any direction without moving and therefore has not to re-roll hits. This is the real benefit of the turret.
If it is allowed to Move & Shoot without re-rolls, tanks without turret can shoot unpenalized in any direction too.

 

[hithero]

Good point, I wonder if this has been factored into any points costs.

 

[MongooseMatt]

If thats official well i agree with you "there doesn't seem much point in moving normally".

For a tank, no - however, this is not a Tank (or even a Tracks) rule. It is a movement mode rule, and covers jumping, hovering, wheels, etc. There are plenty of reasons why other types of movement may want to move normally. . .

 

[Alexb83]

From my point of view it is important to use the re-roll rule for normal move & shoot combinations, because otherwise tanks without turret are too strong compared to tanks with turret.

Generally tanks cannot react and the main gun can only shoot once per turn. A tank with turret can shoot in any direction without moving and therefore has not to re-roll hits. This is the real benefit of the turret.
If it is allowed to Move & Shoot without re-rolls, tanks without turret can shoot unpenalized in any direction too.

How is this a problem? Tank destroyers etc. are not supposed to roam the battlefield picking out targets of opportunity like tanks are. They are supposed to be deployed at long range from concealed positions where they can take advantage of their strong front armour (facing the enemy) and powerful guns to destroy tanks with little chance of reprisal.

If it finds itself in a position where it has to turn to fire, it is being outflanked, and should be suffering the penalties of repositioning the gun.

I would however introduce a penalty for significant turret traverses on some guns. Tigers spring to mind, due to the time taken for a long turret traverse. Also some turreted TDs which had manually cranked turrets.

 

[Hiromoon]

Well, according to US Army doctrine:


Light Tank - Recon, search out other tanks. If encountering enemy tank, retreat while calling for a Tank Destroyer.

Medium Tank - Infantry support. If encountering enemy tank, retreat while calling for a Tank Destroyer.

Tank Destroyer - Either stalk and skulk around for a tank, or respond for requests for a Tank Destoyer.

 

[Alexb83]

Indeed

And to effectively engage an enemy tank, a TD would need to be facing it head on, preferably from outside range of reprisals and with secure flanks.

They were not designed to be put into the thick of a battle, constantly being moved about - they are more akin to self propelled artillery than to tanks. You put them at a sufficient range where their limited traverse covers a considerable section of the battlefield and they are not required to move. You then rely on their high ROF and killing power to do the job.

 

[MongooseMatt]

They were not designed to be put into the thick of a battle, constantly being moved about - they are more akin to self propelled artillery than to tanks. You put them at a sufficient range where their limited traverse covers a considerable section of the battlefield and they are not required to move. You then rely on their high ROF and killing power to do the job.

Of course, what a _player_ decides to do is something else

 

[Alexb83]

Sure, but the player shouldn't be surprised when he keeps having to move in order to line up his guns, and suffering penalties for doing so.

A tank on the other hand has the luxury of sitting still and turning his turret around. Good for him - outflank the silly man with some infantry and throw a few molotov cocktails on his roof. That will soon teach him the error of his ways.

Again though, the heavier german tanks and turreted (non motor driven) TDs should be suffering some sort of penalty for repositioning the gun.
I would go so far as to say they should not be able to engage some targets that have moved and/or are within a certain range - given the length of their guns and the time taken to swing them around.

 

[Laffe]

One option would be to allow turreted tanks to turn their turret a maximum of 90 degrees before firing; some tanks could be given a "slow turret" trait which would only allow them to turn the turret a maximum of 45 degrees. That would make it important for all tanks to position the turret when moving, and extra important for those with slow turrets.

It is claimed that one of the reasons that Wittman was so good in a Tiger was because he had learned tank combat in a StuG on the eastern front; thus he wasn't hampered as much by the slow turret of the tiger since he was used to aiming with the whole tank.

 

[hithero]

You could take a ready action to traverse the turret through a facing, but who's going to find out the speeds of all the AFV turrets to see which tanks would suffer the penalty? I'm not sure that a rule is really needed as tanks seldom seem the need to rotate the turrets and if they do its normally when they move - and wouldn't a tank be able to move and traverse in the same action?

Could have the Move action also allow for a turret traverse or a Ready action if turret traverse only.

 

[non com]

we've had this come up also to simply take care of the move and shoot rule if you destroy the target on your first roll don't move hence no penalty,simple :lol:

 

[Graywinter]

Funny that this came up again, I don't feel so bad about the other thread that went on for four pages and touched on time/space theory.