Sorcery enchantments question

[gran_orco]

I am reading Arms & Equipment -great book!- and I have some questions regarding sorcery enchantments:
-1 Preparation: In general, it takes 1 hour to prepare items of less than SIZ 1 and 1 hour for each subsequent point of SIZ. The example of the giant with SIZ 50 says that the enchantment would take 7 hours. But 50/7=7.14 (8 rounding up). Am I wrong?
-2 Binding enchantment: Capturing a creature in a binding enchantment requires either dissipating the creature (...). The sorcerer can use Holdfast (...) preventing the spirit from dissipating :?: :?: However the spirit can still make attacks against the sorcerer. Can you explain me this, please? I do not understand the process. Do I need one spectral combat vs grimoire opposed roll and do Holdfast later, or Holdfast only? I am very confused.
-3 There are some sentences which say that the sorcerer must spend POW, like in the binding enchantment description. Should it be magic points, instead?

In the page 96, the introduction declares that the creation of enchantments is reserved to Divine, Sorcery and Spirit Magic. Where are the spirit enchantments? A sorcerer can use a binding enchantment to acces to the magic points, skills, knowledge and spells of the spirit bound! However, a shaman can do that only with his fetch and ancestral spirits (if they posses the shaman) -he cannot acces to MP, neither spells or skills- :shock:
Moreover, a sorcerer can cast dominate species to compel the spirit to reenter in the enchantment before the time elapses if he has used it to perform 1 hour of activity.
So, if there are divine and sorcery enchantments only, what can do a shaman?

 

[gran_orco]

I would like an official answer, but I will appreciate any help.

 

[Loz]

Hi Gran,

These aren't answered in the order you raise them...

In the page 96, the introduction declares that the creation of enchantments is reserved to Divine, Sorcery and Spirit Magic. Where are the spirit enchantments?

Point of clarity: spirits can be bound to a fetish or other item by shaman. This is what is meant by Spirit Enchantments, not that there's a separate rule-set for them. However I agree I didn't make that clear enough.

1 Preparation: In general, it takes 1 hour to prepare items of less than SIZ 1 and 1 hour for each subsequent point of SIZ. The example of the giant with SIZ 50 says that the enchantment would take 7 hours. But 50/7=7.14 (8 rounding up). Am I wrong?

No, it should be 8. My mistake.

-2 Binding enchantment: Capturing a creature in a binding enchantment requires either dissipating the creature (...). The sorcerer can use Holdfast (...) preventing the spirit from dissipating However the spirit can still make attacks against the sorcerer. Can you explain me this, please? I do not understand the process

.

Depending on the spirit - whether its hostile or not - and its nature, then the spirit can make attacks at the sorcerer whilst bound by the Holdfast spell: all Holdfast does is stop it from returning to the spirit plane - it holds it on the mundane plane, but that doesn't prevent it from attacking.

Do I need one spectral combat vs grimoire opposed roll and do Holdfast later, or Holdfast only? I am very confused.

It would be Spectral Combat verses Persistence - unless the sorcerer also has some form of spirit combat too.

-3 There are some sentences which say that the sorcerer must spend POW, like in the binding enchantment description. Should it be magic points, instead?

It should.

A sorcerer can use a binding enchantment to acces to the magic points, skills, knowledge and spells of the spirit bound! However, a shaman can do that only with his fetch and ancestral spirits (if they posses the shaman) -he cannot acces to MP, neither spells or skills-
Moreover, a sorcerer can cast dominate species to compel the spirit to reenter in the enchantment before the time elapses if he has used it to perform 1 hour of activity.

As the sorcerer has bound the spirit into the enchantment he's effectively enslaved it. Shamans don't do that. Although they can compel spirits to perform services and tasks for them, their main access to those deeper spirit abilities is through the fetch, as you rightly point out.

So, if there are divine and sorcery enchantments only, what can do a shaman?

As pointed out at the top of the response, there isn't a separate set of spirit enchantment rules. Hope this is now clearer for you.

 

[Denalor]

I don't have my book yet, so I cannot really contribute, but one thing does make me wonder:

Holdfast to thwart a spirit from fleeing ??? Are you really talking about the sorcerous spell here ?

Holdfast is supposed to work on objects or persons, both inorganic and organic substances, but there's no mentioning in its description that it can be applied to incorperal beings.

I would have assumed that you'd need Protective Ward combined with a Spirit Resistance directed inward. And possibly/most likely a Dominate (Species) (the proper species, of course) to do the trick.

 

[gran_orco]

Do I need one spectral combat vs grimoire opposed roll and do Holdfast later, or Holdfast only? I am very confused.

It would be Spectral Combat verses Persistence - unless the sorcerer also has some form of spirit combat too.

Thank you Loz. It helped me.
However, I think that I did not make the 3rd question clear:
If the last sentence of the first par says that one creature can resist the enchantment with its spectral combat skill in an opposed roll against the sorcerer's Grimoire skill, then why is the Holdfast necessary? That is what I do not understand. (As well, you have answered that they must face spectral combat vs Persistence. Again, in which case?)

 

[Loz]

I don't have my book yet, so I cannot really contribute, but one thing does make me wonder:

Holdfast to thwart a spirit from fleeing ??? Are you really talking about the sorcerous spell here ?

Holdfast is supposed to work on objects or persons, both inorganic and organic substances, but there's no mentioning in its description that it can be applied to incorperal beings.

I would have assumed that you'd need Protective Ward combined with a Spirit Resistance directed inward. And possibly/most likely a Dominate (Species) (the proper species, of course) to do the trick.

It can be used on living beings, binding them to the substance they're in contact with. Spirits are living beings (although you could easily rule that undead spirits are not) without a physical body. With spirits the spirit is on the material plane, which has a spiritual substance to it, and the Holdfast spell is what keeps it tied to the plane. Its a looser interpretation of the spell, but valid, nonetheless.

 

[Loz]

If the last sentence of the first par says that one creature can resist the enchantment with its spectral combat skill in an opposed roll against the sorcerer's Grimoire skill, then why is the Holdfast necessary? That is what I do not understand. (As well, you have answered that they must face spectral combat vs Persistence. Again, in which case?)

Holdfast stops the spirit from leaving the material plane, if its trying to dissipate back to the spirit plane.

However, to resist being bound into an object, it resists as the last sentence of the first para says.

 

[gran_orco]

Ah! Ok. I have understood it clearly.

 

[preacher65]

This is what is meant by Spirit Enchantments, not that there's a separate rule-set for them. However I agree I didn't make that clear enough.

I was taken aback when I started reading this chapter of A&E, as it seemed to promise rules for spirit enchantments and then didn't deliver. A few moments later I realised we already had the rules for spirit enchantments in the main rulebook. 8)

Baggage from earlier editions of RuneQuest keeps getting in the way of me understanding how versatile spirit magic really is. But I'm getting there...

 

[gran_orco]

Loz, Pete: can a sorcerer do an enchantment using the magic points from a spirit bound in another binding enchantment? Can he use the magic points from his familiar or another source?

 

[gran_orco]

I need this to do a magical sword for my campaign. Could use a sorcerer the MP of an spirit in a binding enchantment to create enchantments, or can he use only his own mp and those in the power crystals?
Could he use mp from a familiar?

 

[Loz]

I need this to do a magical sword for my campaign. Could use a sorcerer the MP of an spirit in a binding enchantment to create enchantments, or can he use only his own mp and those in the power crystals?
Could he use mp from a familiar?

Yes.

 

[Dal Thrax]

What about temporary MP's gained for a Tap spell. Also what happens if somebody casts restoration (or whatever the spell name is) on the victim of the tap?

 

[Dal Thrax]

What about temporary MP's gained for a Tap spell. Also what happens if somebody casts restoration (or whatever the spell name is) on the victim of the tap?

 

[Loz]

What about temporary MP's gained for a Tap spell. Also what happens if somebody casts restoration (or whatever the spell name is) on the victim of the tap?

In theory, yes. As long as the sorcerer can maintain the concentration to then make use of the tapped MPs. Using Power crystals and other means is probably more efficient, though.