Sorcerer of the Scarlet Circle

René

Banded Mongoose
Has someone playtested this PrC? How does it fare against armoured soldiers etc.? Thanks for your help!
 
Haven't playtested yet, but made a character based on this PrC a long time ago. He is intended to become the main antagonists of one of the players (a renegade Khitan scholar), but I've saved their first fight for later in the campaign -the PC wouldn't survive at this level if he fled on round 1 :twisted:

This character is 10 lvl in the prestige class, so I don't know how a low level Scarlet Circle sorcerer would do but from this character you can assume:

-It has impressive DV, keep on mind Darting Serpent, Warrior Trance, Calm of the Adept and one of his SQs which allows for a better Total Defense.

-Total Defense+Web of Death=Death for most foes. The sorcerer can get a +10 to DV by the Total Defense alone because of his SQ. Most people will only hit him by getting a 20.

-It has a +1/3 levels bonus to unarmed damage from Warrior Trance. Added to the 2d6 at PrC lvl 10, it is quite a punch. There's also the possibility to use Power Attack in combination with Finesse attacks.

-And this takes us to the fact that Finesse Attack Bonus grows thanks to Darting Serpent, making this character pretty good in attack bonus (it gets an additional +1 to hit each 2 levels if I recall well!).

-The initiative of a Scarlet Circle scholar can be godly (I think Darting Serpent gives +1 to Init each level, which must be added to the bonus for improved dexterity).

In short, while a low level Sorcerer of the Scarlet circle will not be so menacing, rest assured, at middle and high levels it can be a match for even heavily armoured soldiers. At least, in theory.

Now you made it more difficult for me to refrain from using the Scarlet Circle Scholar in next game... :twisted:
 
Thanks, Maximo! I intend to use the Sorcerer as antagonist, too, and am not sure, how the odds would be, if he has one or two acolytes with him. Maybe I play a dummy fight in my apartement before I let him loose...
 
you can summon a demon in your flat but do ever recall Lovecraft's favorite: do not summon something from beyond that you can not control and bind.
 
Maximo said:
-The initiative of a Scarlet Circle scholar can be godly (I think Darting Serpent gives +1 to Init each level, which must be added to the bonus for improved dexterity).

Darting serpent actualy grants a +2 bonus to initiative per 2 levels of scholar, and the number of PPs you spend. It boosts dexterity by 2 per each expenditure of the PP cost, which by itself improves initiative by 1, and an "additional" bonus to initiative of +1. This is quoting from memory, but I am prety sure it says additional.

The combination of Warrior trance and Darting serpent is pretty neat, or so it seems. I have projected a character with this prestige class, and in the long run it seems to match soldiers and barbarians in DV and attack bonus. Finnessing which means that there won't be DR against his unarmed strikes. With sorcery it always depends on the availability of PPs to boost the fighting prowess through magic. Meditation and Oportunistic sacrifice are good feats for a character like this, and Cling of power as well, because if you don't have the PPs, you are a lousy fighter just like any other sorcerer.
 
The main problem I see is that the guys lacks any armour: if he is hit, he gets fast down (massive damage threshold).
 
It is true, that's the main problem for this class.

However, a 2-handed greatsword wielded by a mad Cimmerian will take out any character that quick if it hits.

Trick is that the Scarlet Circle Scholar can fight defensively (even with Total Defense and making counterstrikes with Web of Death feat) so he does not get hit :wink:

At low levels he can be easily defeated, as his training is not as good as needed to defy other more combat oriented classes, but once he gets Impenetrable Fortress (or whatever is the name of the feat which improves his Total Defence) he is a force to be reckoned with.

Remember, have the scholar fight defensively, use combat expertise, total defense or whatever defensive trick on the list. Of course, as you have noticed, once players get a 20 it will be over most likely.
Anyway, you can give him Witch's Vigour so the scholar becomes a bit more "durable".

That's mostly speculation, but hope it helps.

PS: I have to admit that the Scarlet Circle adversary I made for my players is high level... and not wholly human :twisted:
 
Maximo said:
PS: I have to admit that the Scarlet Circle adversary I made for my players is high level... and not wholly human :twisted:

Some Child of... template?
 
René wrote:
Some Child of... template?

As I know none of my players read this forum (they told me, and they can be trusted) I think I can answer this question...

He is a Khitan Vampire.

So he uses the Vampire template. And I use the undead description found in the Standard Reference Document, so this gentleman is immune to mass damage (yes, I'm that mean).

Now I guess you imagine why he is the arch-villain of one campaign nad not a mook.

Anyway, I'm going to throw some less powerful Scarlet Circle Scholars in the path of my PCs, so I'll tell you how they worked whenever I carry it out.
 
I've never tested a Scarlet Circle sorcerer, but it would be interesting to see if he can overcome the disadvantages of fighting this way, without resorting to Defensive Blast :).

So he uses the Vampire template. And I use the undead description found in the Standard Reference Document, so this gentleman is immune to mass damage (yes, I'm that mean).

I don't think you're being mean at all. Not using this part of the SRD would have ridiculous results, like skeletons with the flu. Being mean in this situation would be giving him the template for free without requiring him to cast Vampire Transformation, thus avoiding all the horrible disadvantages of this ritual.
 
Maximo said:
He is a Khitan Vampire.

So he uses the Vampire template. And I use the undead description found in the Standard Reference Document, so this gentleman is immune to mass damage (yes, I'm that mean).

Never thought of this, but it gives me some ideas - thanks for the input. Maybe I go with the Immortality style - the Vampire transformation is his ultimate goal, but hes has at the time achieved only a few stages of the transformation (similarly to the Dragon transformation in the Dark Sun - setting).
A 100% vampire is a VERY challenging foe.

Maximo said:
Anyway, I'm going to throw some less powerful Scarlet Circle Scholars in the path of my PCs, so I'll tell you how they worked whenever I carry it out.

That'd be very nice, Maximo!
 
At last I managed to battle-test this PrC vs armoured PCs. Player's average lvl was 6, and there were three of them. They had DRs of 6, 8 and 11, respectively. There was a soldier and two multiclassed soldiers.

Sent three foes versus each of them. They were 4 lvl Scholar/1 lvl Scarlet Circle (2) and a 4 lvl Scholar/2 lvl Scarlet Circle. And there was also a 4 scholar/6 Scarlet Circle leader who was supposed to be able to prepare his spells before entering the fight.

Players wiped out the low level Scarlet Circle without sweating. This included the 4 Scolar/2Scarlet Circle foes. Only the player with DR 6 was hurt, but overall damage was negligible. Of course, the fact that one of the players had Great Cleave and used a greatsword could have something to do with this.

The 4 Scholar/6 Scarlet Circle managed to raise his DV via Darting Serpent and used Web of Death all the way, until he decided to employ Gelid Bones in one of the PCs. At this moment he had all of his men, and his blows had not taken down the DR 8 PC, as he was a PC with a very high Parry Bonus and he didn' manage to land at him more than two finesse attacks, if I recall correctly. However, he did real damage to this PC, and perhaps could have won, were he not surrounded by PCs.

The player attacked with Gelid Bones (that of DR 11) was brought down at last, but this was a useless gesture as this round he was struck by a Two Weapon Strike player... which ended in Massive Damage and death.

Sorry for the dryness of the report, (I'm not so confident in my English to tell it in story terms, you know, with dialoges and all) but I think the point is made: There are some weaknesses in the class, at least at low levels. A 4Sch/2SC character can be finished as easy as a 2 lvl Soldier. :(
The 4Sch/6SC concept was powerful, just not enough to fight three fight oriented players at the same time.

Next time I will try the 4 Sch/8Scarlet Circle I have prepared. Now this seems more threatening (based on his stats, at least). 8)

I will tell you the results whenever I carry it out (current work load makes impossible for me to know when, but I hope I don't get as delayed as Mongoose :lol: ).

Of course, if there's any question about this first test, please tell me...
 
Interesting, Maximo! If I understand you correctly, only one sorcerer cast his spells in preparation of the battle? I don't know the situation, in which the PCs faced the sorcerers, but probably they'd have done more damage if they'd cast their body enhancing magic before (which they probably do in most cases).

In one of the next sessions I plan to have some guys of the Scarlet Circle, so I may add a few experiences myself soon.
 
René wrote
If I understand you correctly, only one sorcerer cast his spells in preparation of the battle?
Well, it all started with a little negotiation/bullying to get the players treason one of their friends (a renegade Khitan sorcerer).

Of course players did not like it at all, and a fight ensued.

The player with Great Cleave did not allow any nearby Sorcerers the time to cast any spells. As for the others, yes, some were able to cast Fighting Trance. However, I did not mention it because the damage output they caused was negligible, and they didn't last long.

Keep on mind it was a first test, made in what I think were disadventageous conditions for the Sorcerers (at the begining of the fight they were only boosted by Calm of the Adept).
And yes, most fell without any glory, but I know these players have shredded to bits men-at-arms units, so that's not so strange (this is Conan, after all, where PCs get out of the battlefield over a heap of corpses) :twisted:

In fact, I felt they were surprised at the skill of the Scarlet Circle leader, so we will see next time with the Scholar4/Scralet Circle8 foe I've prepared...

René wrote
In one of the next sessions I plan to have some guys of the Scarlet Circle, so I may add a few experiences myself soon.

I'm very interested in them :D

BTW, before I forget it, I'll try to post ASAP the Scarlet Circle sorcerers I made. There are design decissions which can be arguable, so any suggestions will be welcome.
 
Here they are. Stats are posted in a non standard way (I put ranks instead of total bonuses and I did not add synergies, for example), but hope they can be understood.
BTW, the numbers next to spell names are the level where they were taken.
If there's any question/comment, please tell me

Initiate
Medium-Size Humanoid (scholar4/1Scarlet Circle)
Hit Dice: 5d6 (20 hp)
Initiative: +4 (+3 Dex, +1base Reflex save)
Speed: 30 ft.
DV (Dodge): 14 (+ 1 level, + 3 Dex)
DV (Parry): 12 (+ 1 level, + 1 Str)
DR: 0
BAB/grapple:3/4
Attack: +9 unarmed finesse (NOTE:He added his Wis to unarmed strike)
Full Attack: +9 unarmed finesse
Damage: 1d8+1str
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities:+1pp
Space/Reach: 5 ft. /5 ft.
Saves: Fort +1+0Con, Ref +1+3Dex, Will +6+2Wis
Abilities: Str 13 Con 11 Dex 16 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 12
Skills:
Bluff 5 Concentration 4 Craft (alchemy) 4 Craft (herbalism) 5 Intimidate 5 Knowledge (arcane) 8 Knowledge (religion) 7 Knowledge (geography) 5 Knowledge (nature) 5 Listen 2 Move silently 8 Perform (ritual) 6 Search Sense motive Sleight of hand Tumble 2
$NOTE:Stat and misc modifiers NOT included in skills

Feats: Brawl, Defensive martial arts, Improved unarmed strike, Combat reflexes, Weapon focus (unarmed)
MAB: 3(2base+1cha)
PP: 7 (4base+2wis+1); max PP:14
Spells:
Oriental magic (1 Calm of the adept 3 Warrior trance 4 Darting Serpent)
Divinations (2 astrological prediction psychometry)
Necromancy (4 raise corpse)

Martial artist
Medium-Size Humanoid (scholar4/2Scarlet Circle)
Hit Dice: 6d6+6 (29 hp)
Initiative: +4 (+3 Dex, +1 base Reflex save)
Speed: 30 ft.
DV (Dodge): 15 (+ 2 level, + 3 Dex)
DV (Parry): 13 (+ 1 level, + 2 Str)
DR: 0
BAB/grapple:4/6
Attack: +10 unarmed finesse (NOTE:He added his Wis to unarmed strike)
Full Attack: +10 unarmed finesse
Damage: 1d8+1str
Special Attacks: Combination attack
Special Qualities:+1pp
Space/Reach: 5 ft. /5 ft.
Saves: Fort +1+1Con, Ref +1+3Dex, Will +7+2Wis
Abilities: Str 14 Con 12 Dex 17 Int 11 Wis 15 Cha 13
Skills:
Bluff 5 Concentration 4 Craft (alchemy) 4 Craft (herbalism) 5 Intimidate 5 Knowledge (arcane) 9 Knowledge (religion) 7 Knowledge (geography) 5 Knowledge (nature) 5 Listen 4 Move silently 9 Perform (ritual) 6 Tumble 3
$NOTE:Stat and misc modifiers NOT included in skills

Feats: Brawl, Defensive martial arts, Improved unarmed strike, Combat reflexes, Web of death, Weapon focus (unarmed)
MAB: 3(2base+1cha)
PP: 7 (4base+2wis+1); max PP:14
Spells:
Oriental magic (1 Calm of the adept 3 Warrior trance 4 Darting Serpent)
Divinations (2 astrological prediction 6 psychometry)
Necromancy (4 raise corpse)

Master of the art
Medium-Size Humanoid (scholar4/6Scarlet Circle)
Hit Dice: 10d6+10 (47 hp)
Initiative: +7 (+ 4 Dex, +3 base Reflex save)
Speed: 30 ft.
DV (Dodge): 19 (+ 5 level, + 4 Dex)
DV (Parry): 15 (+ 3 level, + 2 Str)
DR: 0
BAB/grapple:7/9
Attack: +15 unarmed finesse (NOTE:He added his Wis to unarmed strike)
Full Attack: +15/+10 unarmed finesse
Damage: 1d10+2str
Special Attacks: Combination attack
Special Qualities:+2pp, Impenetrable fortress
Space/Reach: 5 ft. /5 ft.
Saves: Fort +3+1Con, Ref +3+4Dex, Will +9+3Wis
Abilities: Str 15 Con 13 Dex 19 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 14
Skill ranks:
Bluff 11 Concentration 5 Craft (alchemy) 5 Craft (herbalism) 6 Hide 1 Intimidate 6 Knowledge (arcane) 10 Knowledge (religion) 7 Knowledge (geography) 5 Knowledge (nature) 5 Listen 8 Move silently 13 Perform (ritual) 7 Tumble 5
$NOTE:Stat and misc modifiers NOT included in skills

Feats: Brawl, Defensive martial arts, Improved unarmed strike, Combat reflexes, Web of death, Power attack, Striking cobra, Weapon focus (unarmed)
MAB: 6(4base+2cha)
PP: 9 (4base+3wis+2); max PP:18
Spells:
Oriental magic (1 Calm of the adept 3 Warrior trance 4 Darting Serpent)
Divinations (2 astrological prediction 6 psychometry 8 Visions 9 Sorcerous News)
Curses (7 Lesser Ill fortune 7 Ill fortune 10 Gelid bones)
Necromancy (4 raise corpse)

Warlord
Medium-Size Humanoid (scholar4/8Scarlet Circle)
Hit Dice: 10d6+10+2 (49 hp)
Initiative: +8 (+ 5 Dex, +3 base Reflex save)
Speed: 30 ft.
DV (Dodge): 22 (+7 level, + 5 Dex); when using Web of Death it goes up to 32. Can be higher due to spells
DV (Parry): 16 (+4 level, + 2 Str)
DR: 0
BAB/grapple:9/11
Attack: +18 unarmed finesse (NOTE:He added his Wis to unarmed strike)
Full Attack: +18/+13 unarmed finesse
Damage: 1d12+2str
Special Attacks: Combination attack
Special Qualities:+2pp, Impenetrable fortress
Space/Reach: 5 ft. /5 ft.
Saves: Fort +3+1Con, Ref +3+5Dex, Will +10+3Wis
Abilities: Str 15 Con 13 Dex 20 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 14
Skill ranks:
Bluff 13 Concentration 5 Craft (alchemy) 6 Craft (herbalism) 7 Hide 3 Intimidate 6 Knowledge (arcane) 12 Knowledge (religion) 7 Knowledge (geography) 5 Knowledge (nature) 5 Listen 12 Move silently 15 Perform (ritual) 7 Tumble 5
$NOTE:Stat and misc modifiers NOT included in skills

Feats: Brawl, Defensive martial arts, Improved unarmed strike, Combat reflexes, Web of death, Adept (Oriental magic), Power attack, Striking cobra, Weapon focus (unarmed)
MAB: 7(5base+2cha)
PP: 9 (4base+3wis+2); max PP:18
Spells:
Oriental magic (1 Calm of the adept 3 Warrior trance 4 Darting Serpent)
Divinations (2 astrological prediction 6 psychometry 8 Visions 9 Sorcerous News)
Curses (7 Lesser Ill fortune 7 Ill fortune 9 Greater Ill fortune10 Gelid bones)
Necromancy (4 raise corpse 12 Death touch)
 
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