Some thoughts on Starports (non 3I rules)

GypsyComet said:
Submarines use expendable resources to keep their air clean.

Subs use reusable (cleanable onboard) items to clean the air. The space station COULD also but because of the expense of getting weight to orbit they don't. Scrubbing the air is trivial.

If YOU want to house rule that as TL increases, TL goes down, you can for your game. Everyone house rules.
 
CosmicGamer said:
How about some systems using a moon?

Or a transfer/refueling station out by the Gas Giant, this isn't prohibited by the rules, but it is not exactly what the starports are either. Starports are also a world interface and in some ways, casual ship building capacity.
 
sideranautae said:
If YOU want to house rule that as TL increases, TL goes down, you can for your game. Everyone house rules.

Or never went up in the first place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken_(short_story)

And no, not everyone uses house rules, or admits to it. The "Rules As Written" crowd is a definite sub-culture within RPGs.
 
GypsyComet said:
And no, not everyone uses house rules, or admits to it. The "Rules As Written" crowd is a definite sub-culture within RPGs.

Depends on players, I just had a player ask about rules, due to my saying I would use things from different rules sets, and I assured him it was mostly mongoose. Many players either don't want to play a game where they don't know the rules, or have to learn a bunch of new rules.
 
sideranautae said:
GypsyComet said:
Submarines use expendable resources to keep their air clean.

Subs use reusable (cleanable onboard) items to clean the air. The space station COULD also but because of the expense of getting weight to orbit they don't. Scrubbing the air is trivial.

If YOU want to house rule that as TL increases, TL goes down, you can for your game. Everyone house rules.

From what I've heard, submariners are quite happy to pop up from the depths and enjoy some fresh air. While you CAN scrub air to make it breathable, we haven't (thus far at least) made it nice like fresh air outside an enclosed environment. Maybe if the station had a large enough agro area that had trees and plants to give it more of a planetary smell it might work. If you have the ability to cheaply lift mass from the surface it makes sense you'd add in little touches to make stations more livable.
 
Starports (TM) are Imperium franchises that like Mickey Dees have a standardized layout, facilities, and probably, location, relative to the primary world.

Space stations/ports depend on their purpose and who built them. I would suppose a megacorporation spaceline along a regular route have their own terminal near the 100D border, where ships can easily disembark passengers and cargo, embark new ones, get refueled and sent on to the next leg of their itinerary.

I'd consider moving an asteroid into a prime location a worthwhile investment.
 
Condottiere said:
Starports (TM) are Imperium franchises that like Mickey Dees have a standardized layout, facilities, and probably, location, relative to the primary world.

Reread the topic. This SPECIFICALLY is about NON 3I setting.
 
Don't know the science behind orbital positions, distance and size. Is there an issue with being a "station" out near 100d and probably needing to be a powered maneuverable craft in order to keep "in position" as the planet orbits?
 
CosmicGamer said:
Don't know the science behind orbital positions, distance and size. Is there an issue with being a "station" out near 100d and probably needing to be a powered maneuverable craft in order to keep "in position" as the planet orbits?

Since that isn't at a L4 or L5 point it would probably need a Tug to have station keeping
 
sideranautae said:
CosmicGamer said:
Don't know the science behind orbital positions, distance and size. Is there an issue with being a "station" out near 100d and probably needing to be a powered maneuverable craft in order to keep "in position" as the planet orbits?

Since that isn't at a L4 or L5 point it would probably need a Tug to have station keeping

Maneuverable drive options for space stations will be available in the forthcoming Space Stations book.
 
AndrewW said:
sideranautae said:
CosmicGamer said:
Don't know the science behind orbital positions, distance and size. Is there an issue with being a "station" out near 100d and probably needing to be a powered maneuverable craft in order to keep "in position" as the planet orbits?

Since that isn't at a L4 or L5 point it would probably need a Tug to have station keeping

Maneuverable drive options for space stations will be available in the forthcoming Space Stations book.

Hope it includes fractional design Grav M-drives.
 
There's actually lots of good reasons why all starships would be required to do their business at the highport and why downports are really a bad idea. I'm not denying that downports wouldn't exist; probably on poorer worlds (regardless of cause -- "less populated" would count) but I think as soon as a world could afford it, they'd build a highport and confine trader traffic to it.

1. No need to streamline ships. Streamlining a ship involves a lot of trade-offs involving the dimensions of the cargo area and how easy it is to load and unload stuff from it, all of which ultimately have an effect on what the ship can carry. If all traffic is conducted at the highport, there's no need for streamlining. Ships could be designed as basically big RO-RO cargo compartments with the other stuff sort of tacked on, or more likely, you're going to see large, efficient "corncob" style container ships where the cargo is attached to the outside of the hull in standardized containers which are then unloaded using smaller ships vessels (really the futuristic equivalent of cargo cranes and forklifts more than starships). With ships like that, it might be efficient to have a queue of cargo ships in a long orbit to a colossal "unloading area" which is basically a huge free-orbit "tube" or "ring" type structure that ships pull into, and lots of spindly robot arms simply pull the containers off in a few minutes. The arms then sort the cargo into lots which are then grabbed by other EVA bugs for customs inspection, set aside to wait for the cargo ship that will take them further towards their destination, or whatever.

2. You can make people pay for fuel. I won't go into the mathematics, since I think there's a few posts on Mongoose's boards that discuss this already, but assuming a layout like our solar system, getting from Earth to Jupiter for "free" fuel is going to be faster using an in-system jump than it is to use maneuver drive. Time is money. That week you spend you Jumping out to the Jupiter equivalent could be spent Jumping out to another port of call and trading and (presumably) making money. People will pay the "outrageous" costs of starport fuel because that expense is less than the time lost Jumping out to a gas giant for "free" fuel (which then has to refined, etc.).

3. You can also make people pay for life support.

4. Quarantine. If your Traveller Universe has any vague concerns about diseases and so forth, you want to leave all that up there in the orbital facility where it can be more easily controlled.

5. Environmental Concerns. It's much easier to monitor and control starships so they don't dump their garbage, suck up your seas and lakes for fuel, bring strange vacuum-resistant organisms or just toxins stuck to the hull which then flake off and pollute your world.

6. It's really cheap to get stuff down the gravity well, likely even cheaper than bringing stuff up, even with gravitic tech. You can drop stuff quickly down the well since gravity does all the work for you. The only thing you might need gliders, parachute, space elevators, or (most likely) gravitics for is to slow the package down so it doesn't burn up on re-entry or make a big crater when it hits the ground.

7. "People don't like to live in big metal tubes." This works to your advantage. Those seedy, shifty trader types who become pirates or mercenaries at the drop of a hat will do their business, unwind at your licensed facilities in the highport, but won't stick around any longer than that because highports are all kind of the same. They can practice their murder and perversion there on the station. Also, if a universe has cheap, safe grav-tech and it is reasonably efficient, if it takes a hour to get into orbit or thereabouts, it's very likely that starport employees would simply commute to work from their homes dirtside. I know people with 1 hour commutes (or "close enough" given traffic) IRL. I know people with 1+ hours commutes. You probably do as well. You may be one of them.
 
Cleaning in space stations would in all likelihood be a very big deal... get sepsis or contamination into the air supply and open areas and all goes down the pan pretty fast.

Now that can be a very interesting topic for adventures (undermining/raiding/saving/refitting the locals).
 
Lord High Munchkin said:
Cleaning in space stations would in all likelihood be a very big deal... get sepsis or contamination into the air supply and open areas and all goes down the pan pretty fast.

UV decontamination built into the distribution points. Done

Gotta keep up with those TL 7 innovations LHM
 
sideranautae said:
Lord High Munchkin said:
Cleaning in space stations would in all likelihood be a very big deal... get sepsis or contamination into the air supply and open areas and all goes down the pan pretty fast.

UV decontamination built into the distribution points. Done

Gotta keep up with those TL 7 innovations LHM

That takes care of your boundaries, but what about those kids that had an ice cream fight on level 3, sector red-1-5? Or the slow water leak from the sewage line, or any of the myriad other things that will go wrong?

And of course no safety or containment system ever fails or, perhaps, becomes the station halts monitoring/operations/repair/funding/etc.

Things will fail, it's just a matter of when.
 
sideranautae said:
Lord High Munchkin said:
Cleaning in space stations would in all likelihood be a very big deal... get sepsis or contamination into the air supply and open areas and all goes down the pan pretty fast.
UV decontamination built into the distribution points. Done

Gotta keep up with those TL 7 innovations LHM
But once those nasty, smelly beings start breathing, sweating, shedding skin, passing waste into the open areas those TL7 innovations are just not going to be much help scrubbing the entire volume of the station....
 
AndrewW said:
sideranautae said:
CosmicGamer said:
Don't know the science behind orbital positions, distance and size. Is there an issue with being a "station" out near 100d and probably needing to be a powered maneuverable craft in order to keep "in position" as the planet orbits?

Since that isn't at a L4 or L5 point it would probably need a Tug to have station keeping

Maneuverable drive options for space stations will be available in the forthcoming Space Stations book.

Any word on the release date?
 
Epicenter said:
There's actually lots of good reasons why all starships would be required to do their business at the highport and why downports are really a bad idea.
<snip>
You probably do as well. You may be one of them.

Good post, thanks :D
 
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