Some things never change

Chewy

Mongoose
I've been playing ACTA since I first purchased it at GenCon the year it was released. In St. Louis, MO (USA) over different periods of time I have assembled large groups of players who at times would play weekly for a couple of years then we would cease playing for a while only to pick it back up again. There was even a time when I was active on this forum and play tested SFoS for Matt and we exchanged a lot of feedback back and forth. I would guess I have played easily over 500 battles of ACTA from ver1, SFoS and ver2. Having played every race many times I think I can honestly say I love the game and the diversity and tactics it offers players.

I find it interesting that even after ver 1, SFoS, ver 2, and soon P&P some things always remain constant about ACTA and especially this forum.

Here are 10 constants:

1) ACTA is fun tactical tabletop space combat game and arguably one of the best. I've played them all since Star Fleet Battles was released when I was a teenager many years ago but ACTA is the one I always keep coming back to mostly because I loved the series and the game play is simple and fun.

2) ACTA will never be completely tactically balanced for each fleet nor 100% true to the series. Its only an imperfect game, but overall a good one.

3) The diverse racial fleets in ACTA have unique strengths and weaknesses, which make them tough against some fleets and inferior to others, as it should be.

4) Players have always argued over balance issues with select ships or fleets since ver1 and naively believe the next revision will magically remedy this, though it never does, it just swings the pendulum to different ships or fleets once people have had time to adjust to the changes.

5) Balance arguments have been passionately argued on this forum since its inception and unfortunately many times due to a lack of creativity or tactical aptitude by some. In most cases a little ingenuity overcomes most balance arguments.

6) Too much initiative sinking or too much overloading of the same good ship on the battle field can ruin the play experience for all involved. Players for some reason have a hard time exercising common sense and refuse to understand this simple concept. Any game can be exploited if you try hard enough, but isn't the point to challenge yourself and all involved enjoy the gaming experience?

7) Every revision of ACTA to some degree has been play tested by some in this community, many players have moved on and new players added and everyone has an opinion that they think is correct. Often on this forum, he who posts most or fusses most gets listened to. I guess this parallels real life. The old adage "squeaky wheel gets the grease" comes to mind.

8) Systems such as stealth, beams, long range precise weapons on patrol and skirmish ships, fighters, etc have always been hotly debated by many on the forums and as in all things there is always diverse views on which group is right and which is wrong. Oftentimes it feels like the approach has been to change it again and eventually we will get it right. Case in point, stealth is just fine and doesn't need to be nerfed or altered anymore. Some don't like the randomness factor it creates, oh well, its stealth its suppose to be random. Fighters have largely been neutered if you field a balance fleet with some escorts. Virtually all things have a counter so if your having problems dealing with something I suggest you mix it up, try something new, be creative, you might just learn a more effective way to overcoming that system or ability that has been causing you fits.

9) Certain ships, such as the White Star, or races keep getting altered with every revision and the community always says, "that's what it needs" only once the changes are final, the arguments begin anew. Here is a tip, the White Star is not broken, its not too powerful, and it does not need boresight weapons. That ought to stir up the hornets again. I've found that if you use some decent tactics against it, it can be corralled and dealt with. It should be a good ship, its the White Star for goodness sake! It's not any more a threat than than the Minbari Teshlan, which is arguably as good or better a ship.

10) Broken ships will come and go with every revision. In rev 1 the Centauri Maximus was the rage of the board of how broken it was; in SFoS the Centauri Prefect was the rage; in ver 2 the Centauri Demos is probably the largest rage among the community. All these ships and others also had some issues, but if an opponent didn't overload a battle and took just a couple of any given ship to a scenario then they can be dealt with. A lot of anything will break most games, this is just common sense IMHO.

It's time for me to sign off now. My sabbatical can begin anew. I typically read this forum daily and have for many years now, however, I grew weary a long time ago. Now I mostly just sit back and listen.

Happy gaming,


Chewy
------------
Semper Fi
"Improvise, Adapt, Overcome"
 
So, basically...don´t buy/use the overpowered ships? Cause you should not use em?

Common.

Yes I agree that the diversity is a big thing in ACTA, but so is it in Warhammer fantasy too, yet it is WAY more balanced, and relies on tactics way more then in ACTA, in order to win.

Is it enough to just: "okey, we made a few fun fleets, although if you play this vs. this it will not matter how a tactical genius you are you still lose?"

It seems you play alot of tabletop strategy games, you must agree that somehow ACTA is a bit more "random" and not so "fair" then most of the popular ones out there?

Not to rant (well okey a bit).
 
Warhammer Fantasy way more balanced?!? Correct me if i'm wrong but of the last three armies to get an update, one of them was previously underpowered as it hadn't been updated for an edition of the game (Dark Elves) and the other two are so stupidly powerful that they're nearly unbeatable by anything except each other (Demons and Vampire Counts)
 
I think he means the general ruleset which I have to agree with. ACtA's over-reliance on critical hits means games can be over in minutes and any semblance of fun go out the window if the wrong thing occurs. Even in a bad matchup, WFB does not have that problem at all except in the very rare occasion. In that context I think WFB actually *is* more balanced than ACtA by a long shot.

Cheers, Gary
 
Dr Stubbsberg said:
Warhammer Fantasy way more balanced?!? Correct me if i'm wrong but of the last three armies to get an update, one of them was previously underpowered as it hadn't been updated for an edition of the game (Dark Elves) and the other two are so stupidly powerful that they're nearly unbeatable by anything except each other (Demons and Vampire Counts)

really - my Vamps got beaten by Goblins the other night - stupid Squigs and their immunity to fear............ :)
 
Boy you said it Chewy.

I agree wholeheartedly and hope Matt doesn't pay too much attention to our "suggestions" on this forum (of course that means he shouldn't pay any attention to me writing that he shouldn't pay any attention to what I'm writing). I've loved every version of ACTA, and think most contentious issues are evenly split (funny how that works, I guess if they weren't evenly split everyone would just agree and it wouldn't even be an issue). Every time he has tried to "fix" something someone didn't like it just infuriated the other half. "Fighters are nerfed. Now they're too powerful, now they're useless". I think he has done a good job keeping the game balanced and enjoyable, and does it best when he doesn't try to fix things he doesn't have a problem with, just to placate a few who do. He has a far better idea on what's good for the game than anyone else I've heard.
 
Da Boss said:
Dr Stubbsberg said:
Warhammer Fantasy way more balanced?!? Correct me if i'm wrong but of the last three armies to get an update, one of them was previously underpowered as it hadn't been updated for an edition of the game (Dark Elves) and the other two are so stupidly powerful that they're nearly unbeatable by anything except each other (Demons and Vampire Counts)

really - my Vamps got beaten by Goblins the other night - stupid Squigs and their immunity to fear............ :)
I have to agree with you. No one takes my lizards seriously until their armies have been trounced.

But then, Warhammer was built from the ground up as a miniatures game. Not a game representation of a tv show.

In the latter case, some ships just HAVE to be great because, well, they ARE great!
 
Sure, the ships should be great, but they should have a cost to represent their greatness.
Unless of course you also want to represent that idea that the Minbari have much stronger fleets than say.. the Drazi. In this case you just need to put in a rule saying that the Minbari get 100x as many points as the Drazi.
 
They do have a cost to represent their greatness. Most Drazi ships are in the Skirmish category. The Minbari can either use just Torothas (and probably get hammered), use Raid level ships (and be outnumbered 2:1) or bring in some of their heavies (and be really outnumbered). :) A Sharlin is worth either 6 or 8 Drazi Strikehawks depending on whether you're using strict 2e rules or P&P modified FAP rules, and the declared level of the battle.
 
Although Torotha's vs Drazi ships is not that one sided.......

Its a nasty little ship with good stealth and 8 dice mini beams even if its not within range of the SAP, DD, Precise gun...........or just the 6AD minibeams if CBD.

I'd think the Torothas would win against the Drazi...........even more if they had a Ashinta.......... :wink:
 
It would be interesting to try. But that is exactly my point - it would be interesting. It would not be a one-sided fight because, although the Minbari have powerful ships, they're more expensive. That Ashinta is going to be worth two Torothas, or two Warhawks. (There's no point in bringing the Strikehawk and its fighter if there's an Ashinta around, may as well bring the better armed Warhawk instead. :))
 
Aye, but usually when someone starts going on about certain ships/races being all powerful in the show and that it should be reflected in the game, they're going on about comparing the same cost of ship from each race. Basically the idea of "ZOMG the White Star is so great in the show it should be better than all other Raid ships!!!"
I'm just saying that if (as an example) White Stars are better than Hyperions in the show, yes it should be reflected in the game but that the White Star should cost more that a Hyperion.
 
nekomata fuyu said:
Aye, but usually when someone starts going on about certain ships/races being all powerful in the show and that it should be reflected in the game.

I find the trouble with the arguement about how powerful certain ships are in the TV show is that a lot of those ships or their crew have plot immunity, and as such will no doubt win regardless of what they are fighting.

It can be a weak arguement/counter-arguement, what should be taken from the show is a general idea of what certain ships are capable of.

As for the WFB being balanced, yes the game mechanics are, this is why WAB is such a good game... it is the army books that destroy the balance in WFB.
 
Stonehorse said:
As for the WFB being balanced, yes the game mechanics are, this is why WAB is such a good game... it is the army books that destroy the balance in WFB.

Well, even WAB suffers from it to a certain degree - it's usually ok within supplement (period), but ahistorical matchups can often be very one-sided.

Regards,

Dave
 
Foxmeister said:
Stonehorse said:
As for the WFB being balanced, yes the game mechanics are, this is why WAB is such a good game... it is the army books that destroy the balance in WFB.

Well, even WAB suffers from it to a certain degree - it's usually ok within supplement (period), but ahistorical matchups can often be very one-sided.

Regards,

Dave

Which is a fairly good sign the ruleset is balanced(assuming the more advanced side has the advantage)...unlike another game by the same company (cough 40k cough)
 
I’ll throw my two cents in on a few of the points.

<Snip Post>

<<2) ACTA will never be completely tactically balanced for each fleet nor 100% true to the series. Its only an imperfect game, but overall a good one. >>

Straw man argument if I ever heard one. No one has seriously argued that the game is or can ever be completely balanced (or even close to it) or completely true to the television series.

<<3) The diverse racial fleets in ACTA have unique strengths and weaknesses, which make them tough against some fleets and inferior to others, as it should be. >>

Having an occasional tough fight is one thing but having too many lopsided battles is quite another. How often have you seen the Abbai win against the Vorlons? How often have you seen the Pak’Ma’Ra win against the Shadows? How often have you seen the Raiders win against the Minbari? Etc. Etc. Sure there are a number of good matches out there but there are enough bad ones out there to ruin the game with too much frequency.

<<5) Balance arguments have been passionately argued on this forum since its inception and unfortunately many times due to a lack of creativity or tactical aptitude by some. In most cases a little ingenuity overcomes most balance arguments. >>

Among other things, I think it has already been stated by at least one A Call to Arms (ACTA) play tester that under the old Fleet Allocation Point (FAP) system, that a ship of a higher point level is not worth the equivalent to those of a lower point level, so your above statement is invalid.

<<6) Too much initiative sinking or too much overloading of the same good ship on the battle field can ruin the play experience for all involved. Players for some reason have a hard time exercising common sense and refuse to understand this simple concept. Any game can be exploited if you try hard enough, but isn't the point to challenge yourself and all involved enjoy the gaming experience? >>

House rules for stuff like ship limits can frequently work when playing with people who you know. What about when you play with those who you do not know or in a tournament? And since it is impossible to know what your opponent will pick for their fleet, it shouldn’t be a surprise that most people try and make the best fleet possible. Besides, if the game had a generally balanced FAP system, then why would any of this even be an issue?


<<Happy gaming,


Chewy>>



Sincerely,

Andrew Norris
 
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