I thought I'd post this bit of rambling before I lost interest
It relates to the discussion about nobles and the role of social standing in the game.
And my disappointment that rpg's in general seem to ignore interpersonal interactions when compared to the attention shown to combat issues; rpg's tend to put more work simulating how people can kill each other than they do simulating how they act and talk within a society.
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Traveller describes characters and npc's through a set of six 'stats'; str, dex, end, int, edu, and soc. Of these six, four are determined primarily through genetics. Str, dex, end, and int are inborn qualities that exist for beings independant of culture or species. Their values are scaled relative to an average human.
Two stats used by the rules which are not determined by genetics are edu and soc. These are usually determined by the environment that the character was raised in. This is most often the same as by the character's birth parents, but could be from the social standing of adoptive or foster parents.
Soc is a problem in the manner the rules use it. The rules use Soc as both interpersonal influence and as a measure of the character's position in society. These two attributes do not neccessarily correspond to each other and can give strange results where those with a high standing will always be more likable and have better success in relationships where all other considerations are equal; this is not always the case.
One solution is to split the meaning of 'social standing' as a person's place in society into the different aspects as described by Max Weber;
1. influence due to financial situation.
2. influence due to fame or reputation.
3. influence due to political position or occupation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-component_theory_of_stratification
This can be used to describe any socially stratified culture whether the classes/castes are rigid without verticle migration, or flexible where the social standing can change easily. In a sense, this could also be used to describe pack or herd behavior in human terms. Even classless or egaltarian societies could be gauged with these ideas where each individual has equal influence in the areas listed above.
My proposal is to use the standard 'social standing' in the sense of finacial influence and add a new stat, 'status', or 'rep' to cover fame or status derived from socially applauded behavior.
Social Standing as indicated by financial influence, is an indication of the environment that the character grew up in. This, in turn, will effect a character's education stat, as a greater level of wealth generally means a greater level of formal education and a wider range of life experiences. It could also affect the other physical stats as a lesser level of medical and diet available. Long term very low financial standing could also include untreated psychological issues that come about as a result of povery levels.
*I suggest that the stat dm for social standing related to financial standing be used as a dm when generating the other stats.*
Or social standing might indicate influence through fame or status independent of finances. Celebrity would have greater influence and recognition than a industrial magnate. Status such as actors and sports heroes might be used, and enhanced, by being a spokesperson for popular issues.
Social influence might be the result of position or title. In such a case, the influence comes, not from the person, but from the title. A noble has power through his title, and not from his own abilities. Should the nobleman lose his title, then his social standing would fall back to his status of wealth.
A character's effective social standing when dealing with other persons depends upon the standing perceived by the person involved. If the other person does not recognized the character's status, wealth or position for what it truly is, then that person can only assume that it is exactly as presented by the character's appearance and behaviour. This allows social coersions and other chicanery to exist.
A character dressed and acting like a noble will be treated like a noble until the ruse is discovered.
===========================
A possible characteristic that is determined primarily through genetics is personality. Personality type is displayed by beings from near birth and remain stable as the being ages. Personality types exist in beings from a wide range of cultures and in a wide range of species. This strongly implies that it is independant of culture and species.
There are several different forms of personality type tests ranging from enneagrams to the more accepted forms of testing based on Jung's theories, such as the Myer-Briggs test. The DISC* system gauges personality types based on the combination of dominant vs. submissive, and introvert vs. extrovert tendencies. For the sake of simplicity, these should probably be reduced to 'strength of personality' or 'ego' as a stat for use in interpersonal tasks in the game. This could be viewed a 'strength of personalty' where low values indicate passivivity or lower self-confidence and higher values indicate a desire to dominate, take control and get things done.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DISC_assessment
=================
thats all I have patience to write for now.
maybe I'll work on this more ....maybe I won't
It relates to the discussion about nobles and the role of social standing in the game.
And my disappointment that rpg's in general seem to ignore interpersonal interactions when compared to the attention shown to combat issues; rpg's tend to put more work simulating how people can kill each other than they do simulating how they act and talk within a society.
==============
Traveller describes characters and npc's through a set of six 'stats'; str, dex, end, int, edu, and soc. Of these six, four are determined primarily through genetics. Str, dex, end, and int are inborn qualities that exist for beings independant of culture or species. Their values are scaled relative to an average human.
Two stats used by the rules which are not determined by genetics are edu and soc. These are usually determined by the environment that the character was raised in. This is most often the same as by the character's birth parents, but could be from the social standing of adoptive or foster parents.
Soc is a problem in the manner the rules use it. The rules use Soc as both interpersonal influence and as a measure of the character's position in society. These two attributes do not neccessarily correspond to each other and can give strange results where those with a high standing will always be more likable and have better success in relationships where all other considerations are equal; this is not always the case.
One solution is to split the meaning of 'social standing' as a person's place in society into the different aspects as described by Max Weber;
1. influence due to financial situation.
2. influence due to fame or reputation.
3. influence due to political position or occupation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-component_theory_of_stratification
This can be used to describe any socially stratified culture whether the classes/castes are rigid without verticle migration, or flexible where the social standing can change easily. In a sense, this could also be used to describe pack or herd behavior in human terms. Even classless or egaltarian societies could be gauged with these ideas where each individual has equal influence in the areas listed above.
My proposal is to use the standard 'social standing' in the sense of finacial influence and add a new stat, 'status', or 'rep' to cover fame or status derived from socially applauded behavior.
Social Standing as indicated by financial influence, is an indication of the environment that the character grew up in. This, in turn, will effect a character's education stat, as a greater level of wealth generally means a greater level of formal education and a wider range of life experiences. It could also affect the other physical stats as a lesser level of medical and diet available. Long term very low financial standing could also include untreated psychological issues that come about as a result of povery levels.
*I suggest that the stat dm for social standing related to financial standing be used as a dm when generating the other stats.*
Or social standing might indicate influence through fame or status independent of finances. Celebrity would have greater influence and recognition than a industrial magnate. Status such as actors and sports heroes might be used, and enhanced, by being a spokesperson for popular issues.
Social influence might be the result of position or title. In such a case, the influence comes, not from the person, but from the title. A noble has power through his title, and not from his own abilities. Should the nobleman lose his title, then his social standing would fall back to his status of wealth.
A character's effective social standing when dealing with other persons depends upon the standing perceived by the person involved. If the other person does not recognized the character's status, wealth or position for what it truly is, then that person can only assume that it is exactly as presented by the character's appearance and behaviour. This allows social coersions and other chicanery to exist.
A character dressed and acting like a noble will be treated like a noble until the ruse is discovered.
===========================
A possible characteristic that is determined primarily through genetics is personality. Personality type is displayed by beings from near birth and remain stable as the being ages. Personality types exist in beings from a wide range of cultures and in a wide range of species. This strongly implies that it is independant of culture and species.
There are several different forms of personality type tests ranging from enneagrams to the more accepted forms of testing based on Jung's theories, such as the Myer-Briggs test. The DISC* system gauges personality types based on the combination of dominant vs. submissive, and introvert vs. extrovert tendencies. For the sake of simplicity, these should probably be reduced to 'strength of personality' or 'ego' as a stat for use in interpersonal tasks in the game. This could be viewed a 'strength of personalty' where low values indicate passivivity or lower self-confidence and higher values indicate a desire to dominate, take control and get things done.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DISC_assessment
=================
thats all I have patience to write for now.
maybe I'll work on this more ....maybe I won't
