So who makes the better Sorcerers?

[Nyarlathotep]

Well, we already know that the Zamorians are top notch theives, although the so-called King of Theives was a Nemedian.

So who makes the better Sorcerers?

I know the knee-jerk response is STYGIANS - but do the folks in Hyperborea, Khitai, the Shemite Desert dwellers, or leftover Lemurians, or the remanent Acheronians give them a run for their money?

 

[Auggie]

The only good sorcerer is a dead sorcerer (NOT an undead one)...

 

[Aholibamah]

You left out the Picts. They have my vote. I think Howard managed to convey that Lovecraftian sense of horror beyond civilization and normalcy very well with them.

 

[VincentDarlage]

My knee-jerk response is "Acheronians."

However, you need to define "better." The Pelishtim are renowned for longevity, I think, and the Stygians for malevolence, the Picts for uncanny and weird, and so on. The Khitans took out several priests of Set, and Thoth-amon made a slave because he lost a ring. The Kothic sorcererers seemed powerful enough in The Scarlet Citadel.

 

[Auggie]

I agree, Acheronians would probably be the best/most powerful...

Consider this- how about the most dangerous sorcerer- one that does not have much 'magical experience' but is in possession of some great artifact that enhances his/her power, but is so uncontrolable they represent a great danger to themselves as well as others.

 

[Valgrim Bragisson]

Chaga would be pretty interesting. I think they get bonuses to Knowlege(Arcana) and Perform (Ritual). Their cultural background lets you give them a Stygian feel without being so generic. Tlazitlan are fun for sheer twisted vindictivness and inbred degeneracy. They get a racial bonus to profession(Torturer)! Tortured Sacrifice, anyone? :twisted:
And the Hyborian can always hack you to death with his greatsword when the PPs run low.

MP

 

[Axerules]

So who makes the better Sorcerers?

• In the Hour of the Dragon it is said more than once that Acheronians were the greatest sorcerers. And Xaltotun seems to be the most powerful magic-user in all the Conan stories, he wanted to reshape the world and resurrect former Acheron !

I know the knee-jerk response is STYGIANS

• Like Vincent Darlage outlined it, the four Khitans in HotD killed several priests of Set: they were outnumbered by the Lords of the Black Ring and won (with heavy casualties). Also in HotD, the high-priest of Asura in Aquilonia told to Conan that the wizards from the East were greater than those of the West. Among the people who live in the time of Conan, except the remnants of older races (Acheronians, Lemurians..), the people of the East (like Khitans) should be portrayed as the best sorcerers.

• IMO it is because of pastiches, were Thoth-Amon was more than once called "the greatest sorcerer" that Stygians are believed to be so powerful. Evil and malevolent, ok. Numerous, yes. But in REH's text Thoth was not as impressive as Xaltotun.

• A few templates are also very powerful : the Child of Jhebbal Sag, the Spawn of Dagoth Hill and Salome. But they are very rare.

 

[Brass Jester]

And don't forget Yag-Kosha! He allegedly taught the Khitians and created the Tower of the Elephant overnight. I know he was a one-off, but it is possible another of his kind survives somewhere; still worshipped as a god.
Also Yara, who enslaved Yag-Kosha. Don't have the story to hand atm, was it specified what race Yara was?

 

[Scorpion13]

What kinda sorceror was Thulsa Doom? He seemed pretty tough.

 

[VincentDarlage]

The people of the East (like Khitans) should be portrayed as the best sorcerers

I think you are right.

 

[MadDog]

Ha ! Weak minded fools ! All in Hyboria know that the best sorcerers are the Spawn of Dagoth Hill ! [+4 PP, Darkvision, immune to poison, etc]

Muahahahahahahahaha !

Mad Dog

 

[tneva82]

I would go for Acheron myself. Reason: They existed long before Hyborian age and sorcerers powers are diminishing as much of the knowledge is lost.

Makes sense that Acherons who existed long time ago would be more powerful than any of the current sorcerers who have lost knowledge of much that was possible before.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Lemurians predate the Acheronians, and their magic is used by the eastern sorcerers. So if antiquity is a measure of power, that still leaves the sorcerers of Old Kosala at an advantage.

 

[Scorpion13]

Lemurians predate the Acheronians, and their magic is used by the eastern sorcerers. So if antiquity is a measure of power, that still leaves the sorcerers of Old Kosala at an advantage.

Well, wasnt Thulsa Doom from Atlantis? What kind of power did he have?

 

[VincentDarlage]

Well, wasnt Thulsa Doom from Atlantis? What kind of power did he have?

He isn't an official Hyborian age sorcerer, so he doesn't count. He died long before Conan was born. He lived during the age of Kull and briefly appeared in one story, IIRC. Obviously he is a powerful necromancer, because he is the living dead, but there is really nothing else to go on for comparison with the Hyborian age sorcerers. He may be more powerful. He may not be. Hard to say.

Read "Delcardes' Cat" (AKA "The Cat and the Skull") and see what you think about his power level. He is only in a brief scene.

However, I do find it interesting that Thulsa Doom's pseudonym in that story is Kuthulos, and the name Skull-Face used in Howard's "Skull-Face" is Kathulos of Atlantis... and they both have skulls for heads... :shock:

 

[Strom]

In the Hyborian Age, I have to go with the sorcerers of Set in Stygia as the most powerful. Who else can claim to rule a nations army? In the Hyborian Age, the sword rules and Stygia has both sorcery and steel. Some mad mages in a mountain may be powerful in an individual adventure but no one has the global impact that the Stygians could display if they wished to expand their empire. The members of the Black Circle are not some lone sorcerer - a la Xaltotun - but a sect who will not hesitate like Xaltotun to unleash their dark magic. Add in the powerful leader Thoth-Amon - who's power and evil will live in on for centuries (must of been an awesome sorceror!) - and the sorcerers of Stygia take a back seat to no one - especially the isolationists from Khitai. 8)

 

[Ichabod]

Seems to be two entirely different questions. The more interesting one to me is: Mechanically, which race should you choose to have the best sorcerer character?

Stygian doesn't actually seem that hot out of the main book. While the skill bonuses for Stygians seem best for a dedicated sorcerer, both Khitans and Chagans get a free sorcerer feat on top of skill bonuses. I doubt it's worthwhile to do noble levels for one's badass sorcerer, but the Khitans do slightly better there as well.

I don't remember what the Stygia supplement contains, but it has some stuff specifically for Stygians which might make a difference and one could get into perceptions, communities, et al to try to find some reason why Stygian would be the race to pick.

 

[Axerules]

Also Yara, who enslaved Yag-Kosha. Don't have the story to hand atm, was it specified what race Yara was?

REH didn't explicitely say so, but he is certainly a Zamorian. He has "a dark face", according to Yag-Kosha he belongs to a "race of devils" and is a priest in Zamora. In Tower of the Elephant it is written that he learned secrets in Stygia before going to Khitai, and he was more than 300 years old.

 

[Buxom Sorceress]

So who makes the better Sorcerers?

well ofcourse beautiful buxom eldritch females make the finest Sorceresses...
...and they are great to leer at and play with... :wink: .. 8)

and although i like the idea of a PYTHONIAN mage,
i think of a resurected ancient ATLANTIAN Sorceress as possibly the most powerful type?
[perhaps i might write a grim tale about such a stunning buxom witch someday?]

sometimes i feel a bit of Atlantian relic in me...?? [i have an extensive collection of weird olde carved bone wands and toys] :lol:
--
thanks for all your descriptions of Hyborian spell-mongers.

 

[kintire]

Like Vincent Darlage outlined it, the four Khitans in HotD killed several priests of Set: they were outnumbered by the Lords of the Black Ring and won (with heavy casualties).

There was one Lord of the Black Ring, and some mooks. Three Khitans died. I'm not convinced that's superiority...

But in REH's text Thoth was not as impressive as Xaltotun.

That is certainly true, but I'm not sure its a good basis for comparison. Xaltotun was hugely powerful, even for an Acheronian.

My impression is that the Acheronians have the greatest potential power. But they are a decadent race, much prone to complacent luxury. When one arises who is prepared to put the effort in they can grow mighty indeed, but the less gifted but more motivated Khitans and Stygians are usually a better bet.