I have read again the chapter in HotD. Thutothmes gathered those who were wronged by Thoth. REH didn't explicitely said that they were members of the Black Ring, but it is written that ten of them were priests. Do you consider a priest of Set as a "mook" ? In RPG terms I would stat them at least 4-6th level. And the four Khitans are not supposed to be the best sorcerers from their land: they were exiled and needed the Heart of Ahriman to get their revenge against those that "cast them out", certainly far more powerful wizards than four outcasts...kintire said:
So who makes the better Sorcerers?
- Thread starter Nyarlathotep
- Start date
I actually think the Hyperboreans make the mightiest sorcerers simply because the Witchman of Hyperborea is a such powerful prestige class! Sure, the spell they learn early on are limited to the certain structure, but receiving high BAB and eventually hordes of followers is certainly a great bonus. Especially since draining power points from thralls is the path to victory in many cases....especially when there are dozens of such thralls available!
Clovenhoof
Mongoose
As I pointed out in the other thread, I opt for Hyborian (not Hyperborean) as the overall best choice for a Sorcerer as PC, from a min-maxing POV.
When I build a character, I always try to get the Favoured Class benefits, because to have or not have three feats is really a world of a difference. These benefits apply to four races, if I haven't overlooked any: Khitan, Stygian, Pelishtim, and of course catch-all Hyborian.
All of these also offer bonus points to Knowledge(Arcana), I think, and this is of course also important.
BUT there are the catches: Khitans are susceptible to Hypnotism, Stygians are much more prone to Corruption, and the fatalist Pelishtim are penalized for _all_ saves.
Hyborian is the only race that doesn't trip you with saving throw penalties of one kind of other. So they have my vote.
When I build a character, I always try to get the Favoured Class benefits, because to have or not have three feats is really a world of a difference. These benefits apply to four races, if I haven't overlooked any: Khitan, Stygian, Pelishtim, and of course catch-all Hyborian.
All of these also offer bonus points to Knowledge(Arcana), I think, and this is of course also important.
BUT there are the catches: Khitans are susceptible to Hypnotism, Stygians are much more prone to Corruption, and the fatalist Pelishtim are penalized for _all_ saves.
Hyborian is the only race that doesn't trip you with saving throw penalties of one kind of other. So they have my vote.
After reading various supplements of the game, I think one can conclude that the most powerful sorceres would not come from a particular race, but would be devout worshipers of Set, and in particular from the Black Ring.
Initiates of Set's mysteries gain several bonuses and abilities that increase their sorcerous power, the seventh mystery alone grants a +2 to all magic attack rolls, there are abilities that increase power points, and miscellaneous magic bonuses. I remember a tattoo of the black ring? that greatly boosted magical abilities, although I can't remember where exactly I saw that.
I has been suggested that acheronias had 9 mysteries of Set, and the serpent people 12, so maybe these peoples are at the head of the sorcerous race.
The cultists of Skelos also gain good bunuses to their sorcerous abilities, and I am sure Skelos himself is a worshiper of Set.
Initiates of Set's mysteries gain several bonuses and abilities that increase their sorcerous power, the seventh mystery alone grants a +2 to all magic attack rolls, there are abilities that increase power points, and miscellaneous magic bonuses. I remember a tattoo of the black ring? that greatly boosted magical abilities, although I can't remember where exactly I saw that.
I has been suggested that acheronias had 9 mysteries of Set, and the serpent people 12, so maybe these peoples are at the head of the sorcerous race.
The cultists of Skelos also gain good bunuses to their sorcerous abilities, and I am sure Skelos himself is a worshiper of Set.
I definitely agree w/ CLOVENHOOF, see the post up above.
In terms of RPG. the Hyborians are the most versatile race and hence they have fewer hang-ups.
I always liked the concept of the Pictish Sorceror. Although no where near as powerful as Xaltotum, the Pictish Sorceror's were numerous, cunning, and able to conjure evil horrors out of their massive forests, whether it was a swamp demon, chakan, sabre-tooth-tiger, or giant serpent.
I have been tweaking with the magic system and decided to give the Pictish/ Ligurean (see Thunder RIver) access to the spells "Shapeshift" and "BlackPlague" through nature magic. I just love the concept of these wicked men brewing a plague cloud over an Aquilonian fort.
I have decided to give them sacred groves where they can regain powerpoints, conjure hideous creatures, and sacrifice numerous captives.
I have to say that although the Pictish Sorcerors not a Preferred class, I think it should be, seeing how prominently they figured in Howards writing.
Likewise w/ Zamorians, too.
When you read the CONAN THE BARBARIAN comic books, there are a lot of stories involving Pictish sorcerors (somewhere around episode #160-170, maybe???).
The main thing that I would do with Pictish Sorcerors is cap their Scholar level at maybe 14th or 16th, although not as powerful as other sorcerors, I think they win at the numbers game since every clan (600-1000 tribesman) has at least one it seems, where as in a large hyborian town of 5-10k people you MIGHT have a sorceror.
I think you could allow a Preferred Class for the picts and Scholar, if you tweak it just right; namely no access to eastern, cosmic, or other esoteric magics. One of their bonus feats would have to spent on a Wilderness or Combat feat, no access to Eastern feats like meditation.
THe Pictish Scholar-Barbarian, is one of the formost opponents in Conan.
I absolutely love the cruel and wanton nature of their society and how they view the civilized folks.
Just my two cents.
In terms of RPG. the Hyborians are the most versatile race and hence they have fewer hang-ups.
I always liked the concept of the Pictish Sorceror. Although no where near as powerful as Xaltotum, the Pictish Sorceror's were numerous, cunning, and able to conjure evil horrors out of their massive forests, whether it was a swamp demon, chakan, sabre-tooth-tiger, or giant serpent.
I have been tweaking with the magic system and decided to give the Pictish/ Ligurean (see Thunder RIver) access to the spells "Shapeshift" and "BlackPlague" through nature magic. I just love the concept of these wicked men brewing a plague cloud over an Aquilonian fort.
I have decided to give them sacred groves where they can regain powerpoints, conjure hideous creatures, and sacrifice numerous captives.
I have to say that although the Pictish Sorcerors not a Preferred class, I think it should be, seeing how prominently they figured in Howards writing.
Likewise w/ Zamorians, too.
When you read the CONAN THE BARBARIAN comic books, there are a lot of stories involving Pictish sorcerors (somewhere around episode #160-170, maybe???).
The main thing that I would do with Pictish Sorcerors is cap their Scholar level at maybe 14th or 16th, although not as powerful as other sorcerors, I think they win at the numbers game since every clan (600-1000 tribesman) has at least one it seems, where as in a large hyborian town of 5-10k people you MIGHT have a sorceror.
I think you could allow a Preferred Class for the picts and Scholar, if you tweak it just right; namely no access to eastern, cosmic, or other esoteric magics. One of their bonus feats would have to spent on a Wilderness or Combat feat, no access to Eastern feats like meditation.
THe Pictish Scholar-Barbarian, is one of the formost opponents in Conan.
I absolutely love the cruel and wanton nature of their society and how they view the civilized folks.
Just my two cents.
Stygian Devout
Mongoose
Voltumna said:
Indeed, judicious application of the gods' mysteries, as well as the cults available in Secrets of Skelos can grant substantial additional powers to sorcerers.
Stygians and Lords of the Black Ring in particular have a leg up on Set's mysteries as well as several powerful items. There are many races that produce excellent sorcerers, no doubt, but ultimately the most powerful will be Stygian.
High Lord Dee
Mongoose
You are correct sir! Bring on the Atlantean Age of Kull. We are all dying for it even if it is a HC book versus a whole campaign. Please. Pretty Please.
That way, I can stop spending money on these ridiculous other Atlantis modules that will take major converting.
And BTW....Stygia is the home of all MAJOR sorcerors in my book...
HLD
That way, I can stop spending money on these ridiculous other Atlantis modules that will take major converting.
And BTW....Stygia is the home of all MAJOR sorcerors in my book...
HLD
Stygian Devout
Mongoose
Anyone actually played a prestige class - sorcerous or otherwise? I am curious about that, never seen anyone mention it here before.
A note on Kithans: they most likely will have Oriental Magic, and Calm of the Adept gives you a +2 to wisdom and charisma, which mean slightly more power points and a +1 on magic attack bonuses. The spell was revised for the 2e, and now it lasts 24 hours, so you get the goodies all day, as long as you have 3 hours to devout to meditation to cast the spell. Also, it gives you a +2 on saves against hypnotism, which in effect eliminates the penalty kithans get for those saves.
And, just to add, there are a few races that have come up in the supplements that have scholar as favored class. These are the ones I remember, and I don't remember all the details, but I think it is not unusual they get bonuses in knowledge arcana and craft alchemy.
Vendhyan (of the brahmin caste)
Kosalan
Sabatean
And unusable races like the Lemurian and Xuthalan, just to include them in the list
And, just to add, there are a few races that have come up in the supplements that have scholar as favored class. These are the ones I remember, and I don't remember all the details, but I think it is not unusual they get bonuses in knowledge arcana and craft alchemy.
Vendhyan (of the brahmin caste)
Kosalan
Sabatean
And unusable races like the Lemurian and Xuthalan, just to include them in the list
I would have to say a Zamorian with Spawn of Dagoth Hill template. I have played one of these for a while and he has gotten pretty tough!! Especially if he takes conjuring early. The bonus points to sleight of hand help out.
Actually I'm not sure if this is the best, but it seemed like a cool concept at the time. And I have had a lot of fun running him. :evil:
Actually I'm not sure if this is the best, but it seemed like a cool concept at the time. And I have had a lot of fun running him. :evil:
Just to throw another idea at this. Temptress/Scholars seem to do a great multiclass combo. Temptresses have options that grant magic attack bonuses and they gain spells as well. The variant rules in Hs Fallen for the temptress scholar have interesting options as well. So they could make great sorceresses, in specially in areas like hypnotism and curses? But that's only natural, who could resist a hypnotic spell from a lightly clad buxom sorceress????
