so, all these new rules......... ?

[Burger]

fighting minbari which would you rather have? a g'quan or an omega? i know which one there.

Which has most escape pods? :lol:

 

[skavendan]

If it where me this is how I would aproach it.

Take every ship from same class.

Play against the same ship 4 times so there is chance for the ship to draw even.

I can agree that it's not the best method as fleets differ massivly.

But people say don't do a ship Vs ship comparison and then on here they constantly compare one ship to another, the logic escapes me.

 

[Burger]

But people say don't do a ship Vs ship comparison and then on here they constantly compare one ship to another, the logic escapes me.

Comparing one ship to another is not the same as making a 1 vs 1 comparison.

Saying a G'Vrahn is better than a Sharlin does not mean that a G'Vrahn will win in a 1vs1 against a Sharlin. What you would be saying is that a G'Vrahn adds a certain amount to a balanced fleet which includes scouts, init sinks, etc. Then you can say that the G'Vrahn is an excellent addition and will do very well, and be totally worth its FAPs! In a 1pt War battle, a G'Vrahn will usually get its butt kicked. But how many 1pt War battles do you play?

 

[Foxmeister]

fighting minbari which would you rather have? a g'quan or an omega? i know which one there.

Neither - I'd have Var'Nic and a Dag'Kar, which I never seen to be a sub-optimal choice over a single G'Quan, but doubly so against the Minbari!

Regards,

Dave

 

[katadder]

but then you can say that about pretty much any 2 raid ships in any fleet over that fleets battle choices.

 

[Greg Smith]

but lets be honest in a fight between the 2 ...

But this is a fleet game. We should be comparing overall capability rather than how one ship fares against another.

and lets not forget the g'quan has a tighter turning circle.

Which is just another way of saying it is slower.

 

[katadder]

true but with boresight prefer that than high speed.
and in a fleet game the g'quan does just as well as an omega because of the fact it fills almost the same role but is tougher generally.

 

[Greg Smith]

and in a fleet game the g'quan does just as well as an omega because of the fact it fills almost the same role but is tougher generally.

I have to disagree with that - interceptors and anti-fighter make the Omega at least as tough, if not more so beacuse interceptors provide better crit deflection. And the Omegas range and fighters give it more capability to reach out and damage enemies on all 4 arcs.

 

[katadder]

i see them both as sniper type ships now that occasionally use secondaries.
at big ships like omegas i usually put beams on and save lesser weapons for the skirmish, raid back ups so the interceptors are not as big a deal and against some races are of no use whatsoever. plus you can always use your 2 frazis as interceptors.

 

[Greg Smith]

the interceptors are not as big a deal and against some races are of no use whatsoever.

And against some races they are extremely effective.

plus you can always use your 2 frazis as interceptors.

Again something the Omega doesn't have to do, or if it choses to do so has more fighters with which to do it.

 

[Da Boss]

plus it gets 4 of them - and better fighters - which unless the OS shot emine gets all of the will likely swing in and and kill the Frazis.............

And of course the interceptors are useful against the G'Quon itself - or for that matter Centauri, Dilgar, Abbai, Brakiri, Vree...................especially Vree........

I'd take an Omega every time over a G'Quon - (actually I wouldn't - I'd take a Liati, Primus or Dargan - in that order :wink: )

now if the G'quan had a 6 AD beam it might be a little better..............

 

[stepan.razin]

true but with boresight prefer that than high speed.
and in a fleet game the g'quan does just as well as an omega because of the fact it fills almost the same role but is tougher generally.

Yes. in a fleet battle, many weaknesses that a G'Quon faces are masked by the strengths of the rest of the fleet. Now, is a G'Quan a most efficient use of 1 Battle FAP... HELL NO.

Now, the fact that Narn CBD is still talked about scares me.

 

[JTL109]

"You should never just compared 2 ships on a equal point level"
I dunno why people say it but meh

For example compare Sharlin to G'Vrahn, which is better?

Fighting each other 1v1, the G'Vrahn will win init half the time, so will only get to fire its boresight half the time. Sharlin's stealth 5+ will never be reduced by other ships hitting, will be 20"+ at the start of the game assuming an empty board, G'Vrahn isn't fast enough to get within 8". So G'Vrahn will be trying to get stealth rolls of 5 (or 6) for most of the battle. Sure some e-mines will hit, but 6AD AP will get 3 hits, thats 9 damage every other turn. Even on CBD the G'Vrahn will be critted to death. So the Sharlin will quite easily win most of the time. Conclusion: G'Vrahn is broken!!11!!1

Thats why people say you can't compare 1v1!

--------
If the fight starts a 48" the Sharlin will take 3 turns of fire before
it can reply. Remember that the E-mine will reduce the stealth
by one every other turn.
The G'Vrahn has been 'fixed'.

 

[Burger]

"You should never just compared 2 ships on a equal point level"
I dunno why people say it but meh

For example compare Sharlin to G'Vrahn, which is better?

Fighting each other 1v1, the G'Vrahn will win init half the time, so will only get to fire its boresight half the time. Sharlin's stealth 5+ will never be reduced by other ships hitting, will be 20"+ at the start of the game assuming an empty board, G'Vrahn isn't fast enough to get within 8". So G'Vrahn will be trying to get stealth rolls of 5 (or 6) for most of the battle. Sure some e-mines will hit, but 6AD AP will get 3 hits, thats 9 damage every other turn. Even on CBD the G'Vrahn will be critted to death. So the Sharlin will quite easily win most of the time. Conclusion: G'Vrahn is broken!!11!!1

Thats why people say you can't compare 1v1!

--------
If the fight starts a 48" the Sharlin will take 3 turns of fire before
it can reply.

3 turns of fire how do you work that out? First turn Sharlin APTE, range is now 36" assuming G'Vrahn stays still. E-mine fires once. Second turn, Sharlin gets into range easily, and the e-mine can't fire because it is SL.

Remember that the E-mine will reduce the stealth
by one every other turn.

Stealth does not stay reduced from the e-mine, it is only for that turn, and not cumulative.


Anyway I am not trying to argue that the Sharlin is better than the G'Vrahn, or vice versa. I am saying that such comparisons are meaningless.

 

[skavendan]

Burger you missed that it is then critted into the stone age.

EDIT: Why can I never get your name right lol

 

[Ripple]

Can't believe this is still being hashed over...

G'Vrahn - one of the greatest war ships ever... even in fixed mode it's a great buy...

G'Quan - still the country bumpkin of the battle hulls... Lumbering hurt this ship more than others... the beams is better but still outclassed... the OS e-mine is of little consequence due to being one shot... frazi's are interesting but due to no Fleet Carrier and no dogfight bonus you better hope you cleared the lanes with you one shot mine. Oh and at least one is already in use eating a pulse for you. No rear fire...

It just doesn't perform well as a brawler due to short range and low maneuver and no significant rear weapon... so it should be an excellent sniper. Sadly its subpar there as well... so it should be a good aux carrier right... nope... no bomber option and no GOOD dogfighter option... again subpar... great brick?... no defensive systems and not enough extra damage to matter.

It's attempting to be an all rounder like the Omega but the Omega does a better job at everything, which means you take two of something small and call the wrecker in the morning to drag that trash off you front lawn.

Ripple

 

[Ike]

It's attempting to be an all rounder like the Omega but the Omega does a better job at everything, which means you take two of something small and call the wrecker in the morning to drag that trash off you front lawn.

hey its not trash, its found art or something. look at the GQuonth and tell me thats not art of some kind, even if its best use is simply to sit there and look pretty and hope it distracts the enemy well the rest of your fleet goes about making war

 

[Ripple]

Sorry, your right, it is a beautiful ship...

Ripple