SMG skill

dragoner

Mongoose
I would not bother bringing it back. Small arms can be broken down into five basic categories: Pistol (Energy), Rifle (Energy), and Shotgun; breaking down by cartridge. Thus SMG's such as the Ingrams or small UZI as pistols, some intermediary weapons such as the Skorpion either way and full sized weapons such as the Krinkov, that fire the light rifle rounds would be rifles. It is the simplest solution and leaves enough room for designer's freedom of action.

Summary, don't change a thing.

Edited out carbine, not enough coffee when I posted this I guess. :D
 
I agree using either Pistol or Carbine based on the size of the actual SMG in question. I play Cyberpunk 2020 and in my games there is no SMG skill, the weapon falls under Handgun or Rifle depending on size and configuration of the weapon. Such as whether it has a shoulder stock, barrel length, and actual physical size of the weapon itself. Most of the time on the SMG's that do not exist yet it is based on the illustration and description given for the weapon, sometime we just have to wing it lol :)
 
The only reason I don't suggest "Ranged: Light," "Ranged: Heavy," and "Ranged: Support" is because that's pretty much what Star Wars: Edge of the Empire does. (Though an SMG would be Light, a shotgun would be Heavy and both a LMG, HMG and PGMP would be Support.)

"Archery: Bows" and "Archery: Crossbows" and "Slings" would be my response to primitive weapons.
 
I can see getting rid of carbine, but I don't think that is on the table, Matt was just talking about bringing back SMG as a skill. But pistol, rifle, and shotgun; cover most small arms, I guess throw energy in there. I liked the original CT aspect of Book 4: Mercenary in giving out combat rifleman, as I would say it confers at least some familiarity with all the tasks in the Soldier's Manual of Common Tasks.

I'm not the biggest fan of the way ranges are done, but that is another discussion.

SMG's are a funny beast, and even though firing pistol ammunition, sometimes it uses higher powered ammo (+P/+P+ for example) than what a normal pistol would handle.
 
MgT already suffers from skill bloat compared with CT.

One way to slim down the skill list is to go for handgun and shoulder-fired as skills and the rest being sub-skills or specialisms.

Ever watch a program called Top Shot and its spin off Top Guns?
 
Sigtrygg said:
MgT already suffers from skill bloat compared with CT.

One way to slim down the skill list is to go for handgun and shoulder-fired as skills and the rest being sub-skills or specialisms.

Ever watch a program called Top Shot and its spin off Top Guns?

No I haven't, though I'm past my gun crazy phase, no more arsenal at my house. I'm leery of television, having lived in LA at one point, they have no onus to be truthfull. I might have liked them when I was younger.

CT is where I got the carbine skill, imo mong is a little cleaner. Pistols, point shooting and such, I can see being a separate skill, plus energy: flat shooting, no leading; and out course shotguning is a bit different, looking over a bead. Part of it is that I feel I could shoot any gun, at least as an 0 lvl skill.
 
Sigtrygg said:
MgT already suffers from skill bloat compared with CT.

Only compared to Advanced generation (Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, Merchant Prince). In Basic you are gaining skills in individual weapons. That's a lot of skills.

One thing to remember is that Mongoose is not a parallel to CT Book 1. It is a parallel to Book 1 plus Supplement 4 plus all four of the Advanced books when it comes to skill list. Compare the skills list in Mongoose to the skills list in MegaTraveller, which is two full pages.
 
Leaving Shawn's statement aside for the moment, let's look at the numbers.

Mongoose has 47 skills or skill groups in the career tables, 18 of which split out to 68 options, or roughly 97 skills total. Those 68 leave rank zero echoes within their groups, so they aren't as exclusive as the other 29 which leave no echoes in other skills.

CT81 plus Supplement 4 and Books 4-7 yields a more complicated picture, with singular equivalences scattered throughout the list, no zero level echoes, and a host of later skills that group the earlier skills together.
Book 1 has 30 skills listed, but states that Gun Combat and Blade Combat must be assigned to specific weapons, of which Book 1 lists 21. Book 4 adds another 11 skills and redefines Gun Combat to use seven categories; it also uses a Book 1 definition for Heavy Weapons, with a skill representing individual weapon systems. Book 5 adds several more skills. Book 6 adds five more and redefines several of the cascades. Book 7 adds two more and redefines cascades again. Supplement 4 adds one more plus the bow weapons.

Looked at this way, the two systems have about the same sized base skill sets, but treat the specialties differently. CT sends you out along a specialty branch with blinders on, while Mongoose spreads zero level echoes over a skill group that you pick one specialty in. PCs gain access to more of the skills in Mongoose, on average, if only at zero.

And, I'll note, at least some of the service breakdowns of Gun Combat in CT do have SMG as a separate choice.
 
GypsyComet said:
Sigtrygg said:
MgT already suffers from skill bloat compared with CT.

Only compared to Advanced generation (Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, Merchant Prince). In Basic you are gaining skills in individual weapons. That's a lot of skills.

One thing to remember is that Mongoose is not a parallel to CT Book 1. It is a parallel to Book 1 plus Supplement 4 plus all four of the Advanced books when it comes to skill list. Compare the skills list in Mongoose to the skills list in MegaTraveller, which is two full pages.

I think that Mongoose's version of Traveller (which, IMNERHO*, is close enough to CT/MT that it's a variation and not a separate game) looks like it has more skills because its skills chapter takes longer to cover its skills. This is because the chapter provides each skill with a description, which is what it should do.

*In My Not Even Remotely Humble Opinion, which IMNERHO is what many internet opinions are. Yes, including mine - I admit it!
 
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