Slavery in Glorantha

[soltakss]

I think converts to Malkioni caste would depend on their status befor they converted. .I think I remember reading about some areas of Maniria where the Nobles had converted to Malkoni, while the peasants outside stayed loyal to Orlanth.And if some powerful Noble went up to some Malkoni Pries tand said I am thinking of converting, do you think they would tell him 'OK, but you are going to have to become a peasant?'

Depends on the sect. The Hrestoli sect starts everyone as a Farmer and he has to work his way through the castes. Even Arkat did that before he became a Knight.

But, most other sects would accept people in the most appropriate caste.

I remember reading somewhere that foreigners are given temporary or honorary membership in castes to reflect their rank and status. So, a foreign lord might be treated as a member of the Noble Caste wether or not he is a Malkioni.

Of course, some diehards would think the opposite - a foreigner is scum because he doesn't belong to a caste.

Or perhaps there is a Casteless Caste, a catch-all that includes undesirables such as foreigners, slaves and women.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Depends on the sect. The Hrestoli sect starts everyone as a Farmer and he has to work his way through the castes. Even Arkat did that before he became a Knight.

I was thinking the same thing. We/Someone should raise this on one of the Gloranthan forums, see if we can pry any hints out of Trotsky, or any other "Western" experts...

 

[Jaldon Goldentooth]

Of course, some diehards would think the opposite - a foreigner is scum because he doesn't belong to a caste.

Errm, a foreigner is scum because he's a foreigner! :twisted:

 

[ninthcouncil]

[Maybe I had the Jrusteli/Seshnegi attitudes reversed. The fossilized Seshnegi feudal system might be anathema to slavery while the young, mercantilist and otherwise egalitarian, and almost capitalist Jrusteli (boy those guys realy remind me of an island trading nation just of the coast of Europe) might have adopted the practice from the nearby Fonritans with whom they've had a lot of contact.

One thing also to remember is slavery tended to be uncommon in areas of high population densities like Egypt and ancient China. although slavery was known in both areas, there was a large supply of cheap peasant labor that would compete with slave labor. same with Mediaval Europe . Why buy a bunch of slaves when Serfs are free.

This suggests that slavery in the Middle Sea Empire might be expected to be commonest on the fringes, where there is a relative shortage of available labour, a pool of unconverted heathens whose enslavement would not offend conventional Malkioni morality, and a higher likelihood of conflict to supply a source of military captives.

In the heartlands, where the population is established in stable caste roles and labour is plentiful, slaves would be less common, though not absent. The image occurs to me of rich Malkioni shipping in exotic "savages" such as Pamaltelans, Eastern Islanders or those lovely blond Orlanthi for their amusement value, even though there are plenty of local servants available.

 

[simonh]

Another point - even if Malkoni don't keep and use slaves themselves, that doesn't mean they can't trade in slaves as middle men between a forreign source and another foreign market. Loopholes like that can of course quickly lead to awkward situaions* - what happens if you take delivery of a shipment of 'cargo', but then you're market dries up?

*Otherwise termed 'scenarios'.

 

[richaje]

I'd say it depends on the particular region, but generally Slaves don't belong to a caste, so they live outside normal Malkionism. If a slave is freed, then he gets to join a Caste and can progress as normal. Slaves born to other slaves belong to the Slave non-caste and so are slaves themselves.

I think this is more or correct - slaves don't belong to a caste. For those who follow the Abiding Book, only non-Malkioni can be slaves. Remember, non-Malkioni do not belong to a Malkioni caste. They are foreigners, barbarians, pagans - and exist outside of the true law.

That being said, slavery is relatively common amongst most Gloranthan cultures - and the Empire of Land and Sea is no exception. The Seshnegi are known to have enslaved some of the Mostali of the Iron Hills as a result of the Tunnel Wars of the Sixth Century. When Emperor Suilmant and the God Learner Monks put down the Safelster rebellion in the Ninth Century, they ravaged the last holdouts of the Arkat cults, and took many slaves who they shipped overseas. And the God Learners financed their occupation of Jolar by selling Pamaltelan slaves to the Fonritans.

Curiously, one of the few exceptions are the Hendikings, who do not take slaves (and who do not have thralls - even in the Third Age).

Jeff

 

[Rurik]

Another bit on slavery, this is from Glorantha: The Second Age p. 18 regarding the Treyling Clan of the Lankst Orlanthi:

The Treyling are not alone among the Lanskti in keeping slaves but no clan is more dependent on captive labour for the tilling of fields and harvesting of fields. Notorious for the mistreatment of their thralls, they shrug callously when one drops dead of overwork. When their labour supply runs low, they simply send a war party out to capture wayward traders or unwary wyrmfriend missionaries.

 

[ninthcouncil]

Another bit on slavery, this is from Glorantha: The Second Age p. 18 regarding the Treyling Clan of the Lankst Orlanthi:

The Treyling are not alone among the Lanskti in keeping slaves but no clan is more dependent on captive labour for the tilling of fields and harvesting of fields. Notorious for the mistreatment of their thralls, they shrug callously when one drops dead of overwork. When their labour supply runs low, they simply send a war party out to capture wayward traders or unwary wyrmfriend missionaries.

Ah, those freedom loving Orlanthi!

 

[Osentalka]

Freedom for themselves... not nessessarily for anybody else.

 

[richaje]

Another bit on slavery, this is from Glorantha: The Second Age p. 18 regarding the Treyling Clan of the Lankst Orlanthi:

The Treyling are not alone among the Lanskti in keeping slaves but no clan is more dependent on captive labour for the tilling of fields and harvesting of fields. Notorious for the mistreatment of their thralls, they shrug callously when one drops dead of overwork. When their labour supply runs low, they simply send a war party out to capture wayward traders or unwary wyrmfriend missionaries.

Ah, those freedom loving Orlanthi!

I'm sure the Treyling would say that Freedom is for those who can hold on to it - keep in mind that most Orlanthi view the world on a clan and tribal level. Folk from outside the clan or tribal group just don't matter - and folk from the EWF or MSE are already "natural" slaves - to either the inhuman dragons or to the distant Emperor of Land and Sea. On the other hand, the Hendrikings do not even keep foreigners as thralls (although they do have special laws for foreigners living within their lands).