Skills that feel redundant?

[Condottiere]

“Don’t say “huh.” The spread in I.Q. between leader and follower should not be more than thirty points. You are considerably more than thirty points ahead of those old sergeants-don’t get me wrong; they are fine men. But your mind doesn’t work like theirs.” Wong went on, “Have you ever wondered why the Patrol consists of nothing but officers-and student officers, cadets?”

 

[agentwigggles]

For me, the starship engineering specialisations are a yawn. Are you really excited to run a character who knows about Power Plants? Some amazing engineer that knows about all Power Plants but comparatively little about the engines they power...? yes I know you can choose points in each specialisation...

I would have done it something like this:

Engineering (Ships), Engineering (Vehicles), Engineering (Weapons)

This is. I really like this. I dont know if those are the catagories, but making the Speciality for Engineering more encompassing is good direction to go in.

My thing with creating specializations where they aren't now is that it essentially nerfs characters. And I am not seeing that Traveller is generally a game where characters get overly skilled and super powered. Now that Steward 3 in my campaign is Concierge 3, Butler 0 Chef 0. And what do we gain from that?

And recon is hard enough for characters to get in chargen without making it less effective.

You character can make a grilled cheese, and has a costo membership. So you always have things to eat. You'll always have basic supplies, but not great.
However, the most thorny, most karen, passengers will be cartered too. And they'll love their trip.
Want to put an NPC at ease? Concierge.
And it would be great support skill for both diplomat and streetwise. Streetwise, is for personal shopping.
It would also help give more fleshing out for NPCs. For a lot of games, the PC tend to hire a Steward to take care of the ship for them.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

“Don’t say “huh.” The spread in I.Q. between leader and follower should not be more than thirty points. You are considerably more than thirty points ahead of those old sergeants-don’t get me wrong; they are fine men. But your mind doesn’t work like theirs.” Wong went on, “Have you ever wondered why the Patrol consists of nothing but officers-and student officers, cadets?”

Still not following.
But then again, I enlisted in the infantry, became an NCO (three-stripes and a rocker), and then went to flight school. Multiple branch changes. Retired after 23 1/2 years. I was amazed at two things 1) IQ meant absolutely nothing when your primary job was to be a pack mule, and 2) there were a lot of really smart guys who enlisted thinking their smarts would have an advantage.

 

[Condottiere]

Johnny Rico wasn't the brightest of sparks.

But in Space Cadet, Heinlein explicitly states that ground forces don't really need to be smart, whereas recent combat experience contradicts this.

 

[Vormaerin]

This is. I really like this. I dont know if those are the catagories, but making the Speciality for Engineering more encompassing is good direction to go in.

You character can make a grilled cheese, and has a costo membership. So you always have things to eat. You'll always have basic supplies, but not great.
However, the most thorny, most karen, passengers will be cartered too. And they'll love their trip.
Want to put an NPC at ease? Concierge.
And it would be great support skill for both diplomat and streetwise. Streetwise, is for personal shopping.
It would also help give more fleshing out for NPCs. For a lot of games, the PC tend to hire a Steward to take care of the ship for them.

I understand what Steward is for. I don't understand what the benefit is to making it into 3 different skills. I mean, yes, in the real world some people are good at cooking and others are good at customer service. But is that a distinction that creates a useful gameplay difference where making sure your concierge isn't a great chef without doubling the skill point expenditure is worth doing?

I guess you could use it to make quirky NPCs like the grumpy irascible chef or whatever. But more important to me is that the character in my campaign that rolled Steward 3 times during her diplomat career would be needlessly nerfed without any apparent gain in fun, balance, or anything else.. Its not like Steward is some kind of overpowered skill.

 

[agentwigggles]

I understand what Steward is for. I don't understand what the benefit is to making it into 3 different skills. I mean, yes, in the real world some people are good at cooking and others are good at customer service. But is that a distinction that creates a useful gameplay difference where making sure your concierge isn't a great chef without doubling the skill point expenditure is worth doing?

I guess you could use it to make quirky NPCs like the grumpy irascible chef or whatever. But more important to me is that the character in my campaign that rolled Steward 3 times during her diplomat career would be needlessly nerfed without any apparent gain in fun, balance, or anything else.. Its not like Steward is some kind of overpowered skill.

Steward isnt overpowed, but steward does cover 3 different things that is only related as 'domestic household skills' .
Thats all.
For me it would help give better division for NPCs andd can for PCs.

 

[Vormaerin]

yeah, that's always the problem with skills in a game. If you have broad overarching skills, they lose some flavor. If you have very specific skills, characters can't actually be as good at stuff as a real person because skill points are too scarce. My general experience is that Traveller is on the "stingy with skill points" side, so skills need to be relatively broad. YMMV.

And I'll be honest, I don't ever care what the exact skill level of an NPC is outside of combat or some other opposed roll with a PC. They are never going to be the spotlight character doing something I'm willing to leave to a die roll. So I'm fine saying "Bob's best meal is canned stew, but he knows all the protocol in existence" if that's what makes for a good story without feeling obliged to say "all good pursers are master chefs".

 

[Condottiere]

In Traveller, skills are a zero sum game.

A character's Steward skill could be nuanced to make him a particular good boot polisher, or make an excellent tiramisu.

 

[NOLATrav]

The Profession skill is a catch-all that can be used to define and refine character competency.

Steward 3 could be Steward 1, Profession (chef) 1, Profession (concierge) 1

 

[Vormaerin]

Traveller characters get between 1 and 2 skill points per term on average. (plus an assortment of lvl 0 skills). If you roll really well with education and promotion, you can do a bit better than 2 per term. A couple more skill points from mustering out, connections, and crew package. This does not come to a huge number. So I don't see why you'd want to make someone who got Steward 3 (Which could easily be 20% or more of his starting skill ranks, depending on age) less effective at a not particularly critical skill by subdividing it. For apparently flavor reasons?

If this was a game with tons of skill points or a game about running a restaurant (where the chef and the maitre'd would want to distinguish themselves), sure. But I don't see it in the normal course of a Traveller campaign. Obviously, if its giving value to your particular campaign, you should do it. I just have a hard time imagining that it would be beneficial as a generalized rule change.

 

[Condottiere]

Or, Jack of all Trades/Steward.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

Traveller characters get between 1 and 2 skill points per term on average. (plus an assortment of lvl 0 skills). If you roll really well with education and promotion, you can do a bit better than 2 per term. A couple more skill points from mustering out, connections, and crew package. This does not come to a huge number. So I don't see why you'd want to make someone who got Steward 3 (Which could easily be 20% or more of his starting skill ranks, depending on age) less effective at a not particularly critical skill by subdividing it. For apparently flavor reasons?

If this was a game with tons of skill points or a game about running a restaurant (where the chef and the maitre'd would want to distinguish themselves), sure. But I don't see it in the normal course of a Traveller campaign. Obviously, if its giving value to your particular campaign, you should do it. I just have a hard time imagining that it would be beneficial as a generalized rule change.

Isn't that what the Profession skill was designed to do?

 

[Vormaerin]

Yes? That's why I'm wondering why people think Steward needs to be changed from one skill to a skill with specializations.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

The character with steward is the purser usually - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purser and one can see it in the wiki article "Since there is no purser on most ships in the United States Merchant Marine, the steward is the senior person in the department, whence its name."

Page 86, High Guard Update, has a full-page + discussion of the Purser (and yet never mentions the Steward skill). I have found that the Purser (as described) to be a very valuable crewmember (we usually called them the "fixer" or "keymaster" during the games)

Steward is described very differently on page 98.

 

[Condottiere]

Then there's the concierge.

 

[Condottiere]

Turn on at will.