Skill list modification
- Thread starter sideranautae
- Start date
sideranautae
Mongoose
Infojunky said:
Yep. Thanks for the heads up.
sideranautae said:
When I joined the thread, I just said I was surprised that you'd actively dropped skills, as opposed to just ignoring them. Which is totalling different to actively adding skills because one of my players wants to play a big shot advertiser.
Your comment comes across as a touch defensive, so just to be clear, I wasn't having a dig because you dropped it. I was honestly interested in why you dropped them. I'm guessing from your other comments it's because you prefer action/combat games but you might have had a reason other than that, which may have influenced me into looking at them again.
sideranautae
Mongoose
I moved Grav to the "Pilot" section and out of Flyer. Flyer deals with craft that used aeronautic principles to be airborne and control. Grav has no relation to that skill wise. As it is a Grave drive it is closer to the Pilot skill.
sideranautae said:
Sorry those were some half-assed answers. (Sidenote member of my Family have been wandering into my office and desperately trying to engage me in protracted conversations while I am trying to respond so I truly must beg your forgiveness. (I am now off to strangle the Teen-aged Boy)).
I am interested in what change you are making and why.
Recent thoughts i have had on the topic follow some similar lines, Like the reconsolidation of Engineering as the operational and repair skill of a Starship's physical plant i.e. the drives. Mechanical and Electronics as the two permanent repair skills (I have considered a more generic Repair Skill to cover). I have also considered moving the engineering specialty Life Support under the Steward Skill, to beef up Steward as the central payload care skill.
I also have problems with the Commo skill, and rolling it into Computers seems like the only sensible answer.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Infojunky said:
Commo, I dropped and figured Computer would cover most of it from the encryption/decryption angle. Maybe Electronics or sensors for jamming (depending on how the jamming is to occur). All Bridge crew know how to operate the computerized ship to ship/ship to shore box. Just like a pilot IRL.
Now, I will be using Skill point allotment. E.g. you get x points per Term when building a character. So when I rolled the 3 "Drives" together I gave it double cost. Electronics & Mech being their own skills for all other needs. (gravitics being a specialized skill also). Those 3 have a cost of 1 point each.
I have a Purser skill rather than Steward. Handles all non-technical ship duties. From accounting, purchasing ... to any passenger needs.
Each Career/Profession will have a Skill list including Advanced EDU skills that a person can pick from each Term. (haven't settled on points/term yet). You will be able to purchase non-career skills at an added cost. (A Scout could get a skill only available to a Navy person for instance, at double cost).
This way people can build a character they want. All I do is state how many Terms worth of Skills we'll be starting the characters at.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
I would recommend combining all the Science skills into a single skill with each of the current skills as a Specialty.
So Science (Life, Physical, Social, Space).
Your characters are more generalists, so none of them likely have an advanced degree in Jump Theory, but they might have taken a couple of college level courses in Biology or Astrophysics.
Damage Control becomes your generic "You know how a starship works" skill. In the US Navy, submariners can earn their "Dolphins" by learning a bit about everything on the ship and a LOT of damage control. They learn how to rig each compartment for Fire, General Emergency etc., so no matter where they are on the ship, they can be useful. Everyone on a submarine is expected to earn their dolphins within a year or so.
So Science (Life, Physical, Social, Space).
Your characters are more generalists, so none of them likely have an advanced degree in Jump Theory, but they might have taken a couple of college level courses in Biology or Astrophysics.
Damage Control becomes your generic "You know how a starship works" skill. In the US Navy, submariners can earn their "Dolphins" by learning a bit about everything on the ship and a LOT of damage control. They learn how to rig each compartment for Fire, General Emergency etc., so no matter where they are on the ship, they can be useful. Everyone on a submarine is expected to earn their dolphins within a year or so.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
I will have the option of the 1st term being college. So, that will be the main Science degree option (all in one as you recommended). Good idea.
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
I have a son who did the Nuke program and is a submariner. His 2 year A&B school training is what I would consider for the PP & Drives skill. All in one.
In fairness, many (most?) of the careers which provide those skills include sensors on their basic training list.
You could just as easily argue that those skills need Computer/0 to function effectively.
There is a recent planet mongoose blog post with some suggested rules for term 1 technical/specialist colleges, if I recall.
I figure Mechanic is the generic maintenance/damage control skill - that's what distinguishes it from Engineer, which is more about operating the kit when it's working properly.
Well, unless you drastically intend to up or down power skills or characters, I'd say one skill purchase and one level 0 skill per term. That more or less ties up with a training roll plus a generic event, and gives you something you can lose if buying a rarer or better skill (where you'd just get the single skill point without the additional skill/0)
sideranautae
Mongoose
locarno24 said:
That kinda flies in the face of the quintessential Trav example of Capt. Jamison. By about 3X. Plus, I'm using a 1D20 task resolution scale. Not a 2D6.
I'll start testing by giving the Home World, Basic Training & 2 skill points/Term.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
As an Engineer who works with Mechanics, there IS a difference.
A Mechanic FIXES things. He knows how something works at a basic level, but he is NOT the person you want to design the new bearings for your high speed turbine.
An Engineer DESIGNS things. Many engineers cannot work on their own cars; but they can design an internal combustion engine (on paper).
Traveller followed the Star Trek idea (and Sci Fi TV in general) that an Engineer can design and fix anything. That is NOT true in real life, but very common on TV.
In CT, there was a Mechanic and an Electronics skill. They were for fixing things. Engineering was strictly a skill for operating/fixing the drives and power plants of starships.
MGT moved Electronics into an Engineering Specialty (which I think was a mistake) but did not move Mechanic there (an inconsistancy that you pointed out).
Personally, I would have Mechanic and Electronics as your basic "fix it" skills and Engineering would be more about design. Most Starship Engineering departments would have lots of Mechanic and Electronics with only a few people having Engineering skills.
Scotty in Classic Trek was an Engineer (Drives) but also had high Mechanic and Electronics skills with a decent Computer Skill as well. Not much else though.. he spent all of his off hours reading tech manuals and journals.
A Mechanic FIXES things. He knows how something works at a basic level, but he is NOT the person you want to design the new bearings for your high speed turbine.
An Engineer DESIGNS things. Many engineers cannot work on their own cars; but they can design an internal combustion engine (on paper).
Traveller followed the Star Trek idea (and Sci Fi TV in general) that an Engineer can design and fix anything. That is NOT true in real life, but very common on TV.
In CT, there was a Mechanic and an Electronics skill. They were for fixing things. Engineering was strictly a skill for operating/fixing the drives and power plants of starships.
MGT moved Electronics into an Engineering Specialty (which I think was a mistake) but did not move Mechanic there (an inconsistancy that you pointed out).
Personally, I would have Mechanic and Electronics as your basic "fix it" skills and Engineering would be more about design. Most Starship Engineering departments would have lots of Mechanic and Electronics with only a few people having Engineering skills.
Scotty in Classic Trek was an Engineer (Drives) but also had high Mechanic and Electronics skills with a decent Computer Skill as well. Not much else though.. he spent all of his off hours reading tech manuals and journals.
sideranautae
Mongoose
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
I leave Engineering as skills for the Engineering section. Hardly any use for players who can design systems on paper but can't fix stuff. In a Trav Drive room, Mechanic would be used very little. Very few moving parts compared to systems today. There are no people in Nuke propulsion teams that only have only Mechanic skill. In fact, that isn't part of the training.
sideranautae
Mongoose
dragoner said:
No. In the A&B school they are trained SPECIFICALLY on the pumps and the few mechanical items. Not GENERALIST trained Mechanics. The rest of their training is on the electrical systems of those PARTICULAR items. They are engineers not mechanics. Nuke MM's operate propulsion, reactor control, and power systems in nuclear plants.
Mechanics in Trav is mechanics in its entirety. I guess it's magic to those who don't know what the training is...
What is the difference between "mechanical engineering" and "mechanical engineering technology"?
Is it...
Engineer(mechanical) v Mechanic?
I would say it is. There are of course people with mechanical 'knowledge' who can design stuff, but almost certainly aren't as good at fixing mechanical issues as a mechanical technician.
And this to me is the point. We discussing the difference between engineers and technicians. It's hard to have one with out the other. In the Traveller universe we should expect scientists, engineers and technicians. And there should be a degree of crossover within related fields which currently doesn't exist. At the moment scientists have a pretty limited role in most games, it would be nice to allow them level-0 in a practical skill associated with their field.
Is it...
Engineer(mechanical) v Mechanic?
I would say it is. There are of course people with mechanical 'knowledge' who can design stuff, but almost certainly aren't as good at fixing mechanical issues as a mechanical technician.
And this to me is the point. We discussing the difference between engineers and technicians. It's hard to have one with out the other. In the Traveller universe we should expect scientists, engineers and technicians. And there should be a degree of crossover within related fields which currently doesn't exist. At the moment scientists have a pretty limited role in most games, it would be nice to allow them level-0 in a practical skill associated with their field.
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
I always got the impression that Traveller "Engineers" are more like train or ship "engineers" - people skilled at operating and maintaining engines and what not.
I'd say there's overlap in practical terms, but Engineers "keep the engines running" and Mechanics repair things like airlocks and hull damage. Electrical skill is useful for robots, comms units, etc.
Scotty would have many levels in Engineering, Electronics, Mechanics and Science(Engineering). And possibly Carousing and Brawling, if "Trouble With Tribbles" is an indication.
The DESIGNING parts in MgT seem more like the purview of Science(Engineering).
sideranautae
Mongoose
hdan said:
That's basically how it works in the US nuc navy. Probably where Marc originally got the terms & Hats from.
mr31337 said:
ME Curriculum: https://engineering.purdue.edu/ME/Academics/Undergraduate/index.html
Math: Differential Calc, Intergral Calc, Multivariate Calc, Linear Algebra, Ord Diff Eq, Partial Diff Eq
Physics: Modern Physics, Statics, Dynamics, Mech. of Matls, Struc & Prop of Matls
Technical: Elec & Optics, Lin. Circuit Anal, Measurements, System Mod. & Anal, Control Systems, Chemistry, Thermo I, Thermo II, Fluid Mechanics, Heat & Mass Transfer, several engineering design theory courses.
MET Curriculum: https://tech.purdue.edu/degrees/mechanical-engineering-technology
Math: Precalc, Calc for Technology I, Calc for Technology II
Physics: Materials and Processes I, Materials and Processes II, Applied Statics, Dynamics, General Physics I, General Physics II, Electricity fundamentals, Heat/Power, Fluid/Power, Applied Thermodynamics, Applied Fluid Mechanics.
Technical: Graphics Communications, Computational Analysis Tools in MET, Computer Analysis Tools for MET, Production Design and Specifications, Visual Programming, Controls and Instrumentation for Automation
