Should there be a Valen class as a regular ship?

[MustEatBrains]

Since we have this little discussion in the other thread whether the Valen class would make a decent addition to a fleet or a special-scenario only ship, I thought I´d start a poll about it.

Personally, I think that the Valen class should be an addition to the ISA list, maybe at battle level. There could be a unique variant for the IA-One, but I would like to see this class added to regular games.

Other opinions?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Scenario only... :wink:

 

[Greg Smith]

Given the size of the docking bay and the starfuries we see, it looks pretty small. I certainly wouldn't see at battle level, maybe skirmish.

 

[MustEatBrains]

Given the size of the docking bay and the starfuries we see, it looks pretty small. I certainly wouldn't see at battle level, maybe skirmish.

Hard to tell without having seen the actual DVD yet, but I guess you´re right - skrimish or at the highest raid seems to make more sense

 

[Shallowain]

I just can't see the minbari really building a "one of a kind" ship. AS far as I know, Both victory and Valen Class are blendings of human and Minbari technology. In this way I see the Victory as the more human dominated ship and the Valen as the more Minbari dominated one, But both are are not unique.

I also can't see the minbari building an unarmed presidential transport, I would rather say, that this ship is *more* deadly than a standard Valen Class cruiser, Just like the Sharlin of the grey council.

Somehow the only race I can think of having a special nearly unarmed presidential transport is the earth Alliance and even there I am not really sure anymore. The only Earth Force one ever shown was that of president santiago and iit was destroyed. Is there any reference *anywhere* that says that another one has been built? I think that even earthforce in this time probably uses Warships for transport of their VIPs like shown in the final episode of Crusade where the senator was brought to the Excalibur on board of a Warlock Class Cruiser.

And although the Centauri emperors Primus does lack the distinctive turrets I strongly doubt that it is unarmed. It was never shown in a fight so the Lack of armament stays disputable

And by the way, can anyone imagine a race that would use a non "top of the line" ship to carry its rulers except for maybe the Abbai and humans as shown with Earth force one? I somehow don't...

 

[Lord David the Denied]

A diplomatic transport doesn't need to be heavily armed, since it's going to be escorted everywhere it goes by warships. The Centauri Royal transport comes to B5 escorted by no less than six Vorchan warships, but the two times we see Primus cruisers in combat they operate alone. If Centauri naval doctrine says a Primus can operate alone, surely the Royal transport, being a Primus variant, would also travel alone if it had the same firepower as the basic hull design? Why assign escorts to a ship that can defend itself?

 

[Shallowain]

A diplomatic transport doesn't need to be heavily armed, since it's going to be escorted everywhere it goes by warships. The Centauri Royal transport comes to B5 escorted by no less than six Vorchan warships, but the two times we see Primus cruisers in combat they operate alone. If Centauri naval doctrine says a Primus can operate alone, surely the Royal transport, being a Primus variant, would also travel alone if it had the same firepower as the basic hull design? Why assign escorts to a ship that can defend itself?

Maybe because it is a major target for any hostile power?

 

[tneva82]

I think that even earthforce in this time probably uses Warships for transport of their VIPs like shown in the final episode of Crusade where the senator was brought to the Excalibur on board of a Warlock Class Cruiser.

And based on reaction of Gideon & co it was clear that was unusual to say the least...

And although the Centauri emperors Primus does lack the distinctive turrets I strongly doubt that it is unarmed. It was never shown in a fight so the Lack of armament stays disputable

Who has been talking of unarmed though? Not me for one. It should have weapons for self defence but not in style of real warship. Transport!=warship.

It's not about wether it's top of the line but functionality. Presidential warship isn't supposed to be a warship! It's not it's mission! You build warship to fight wars. Not presidential transports.

Resources spent on guns would be better put at making ship as well protected as possible. Which is more important for presidential transport? Improved Neutron cannon battery or stealth 6 for example? You just can't add everything and kitchen sink and as seen on screen ship isn't even particulary big...

 

[Shallowain]

Who has been talking of unarmed though? Not me for one. It should have weapons for self defence but not in style of real warship. Transport!=warship.

It's not about wether it's top of the line but functionality. Presidential warship isn't supposed to be a warship! It's not it's mission! You build warship to fight wars. Not presidential transports.

...Which would strongly depend on the mindset of the race building this ship. The Centauri royal court would certainly not be involved in a Battle if possible, The Minbari on the other hand, well the grey council was present in the battle of the line. Regarding The Earth Alliance, well I think we know human politicians well enough to imagine where they would be. For the Narn I would expect them for the most part to be on the frontline if necessary.

Resources spent on guns would be better put at making ship as well protected as possible. Which is more important for presidential transport? Improved Neutron cannon battery or stealth 6 for example? You just can't add everything and kitchen sink and as seen on screen ship isn't even particulary big...

neither was the Whitestar, but I think, considering the size of the "Hangar" of the Valen Class, it looks much bigger than one of those. And the Valen has a full viewing room where the whitestars only have this holografic "display" on the bridge. This I assume shows, that it is most certainly also to be used as a command vessel.

I think it is a ship that could fill the niche of a dedicated command ship, somewhere along the Line of A whitestar guinship trading dodge for stealth, removing self repair, getting hull 6 and some more hull and crew, toning down the armament but gaining command 2 or 3 and maybe scout. As a Fighter compliment I would think 2 or 3 Nials and one flyer.

 

[Nerroth]

I'd go for a regular version as a part of the Minbari/ISA fleet, with a variant designed for Sheridan himself.


And I'll remind people that the Minbari have a track record in flying heads of state around in well-armed warcruisers - Earth might not have a tradition of well-armed transports for such people, but Minbar is not Earth!

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Nor is a ship built for the ISA subject to Minbari doctrine...

 

[Romu]

Not sure it should be in any fleet but I sure would like to get a miniature.

 

[Da Boss]

It also depends on who the ship is built for - Certain ISA presidents are apro active with plenty of possible enemeies and previous situations when speed, arnour, ability to dodge or fight was more important than a comms suite?

re the Centauri Royal Barge I think it would have been interesting to have as scenario target - i imagine a few Narn and Drazi commanders would like to have a go at it. Also I would like the Centauri Emperor would travel with plenty of ships "to show the flag" and remind others of their status. I understand the new film has the new Emperor travelling in one ship on its won which is a interestingly different image projection? Without restarting that (please don't) debate the Royal Primus may still have the beam emmitters?

re Air Force One - hmm not a total comparison as spaceships are so much bigger - more like gigantic navy ships?............

I vote yes - both a special Presedentail ship andthe basis of a new Minbari class of Frigate - its a real ship design from the show - lets use it as much as possible - lots of people moan there is not enough proper/ canon etc etc etc designs - here is one - lets use it! Especially as it actually looks good

now how about the new Vorchan cruiser - hopefully lets have one of them two!?

 

[tneva82]

i imagine a few Narn and Drazi commanders would like to have a go at it.

Maybe. But then again are Narns generally ready to start all-out war...Remember Narn-Centauri war in S2 was started by Centauri...And Drazi's definetly wouldn't be begging for open war with Centauri...

I understand the new film has the new Emperor travelling in one ship on its won which is a interestingly different image projection?

Huh? Sheridan isn't Emperor. And I don't think we see Londo exactly running around...The centauri there is some sort of prince ie NOT emperor.

 

[Da Boss]

i imagine a few Narn and Drazi commanders would like to have a go at it.

Maybe. But then again are Narns generally ready to start all-out war...Remember Narn-Centauri war in S2 was started by Centauri...And Drazi's definetly wouldn't be begging for open war with Centauri...
.

Well actually thinking players and it would be a good target after war starts? and also for a strike when the Drazi / Narn hit Centauri Prime good secondary target?

I understand the new film has the new Emperor travelling in one ship on its won which is a interestingly different image projection?

Huh? Sheridan isn't Emperor. And I don't think we see Londo exactly running around...The centauri there is some sort of prince ie NOT emperor.[/quote]

Hmm my mistake - I was reading into the bits I had heard about. So is this Prince just head of a House or something else? Presume this is after Vir? Or is he not mentioned?

thanks

 

[thehod]

It could just be like a Milani diplomatic ship under skirmish or even raid but make it unique or atleast Sheriden's varient.

 

[Chernobyl]

we don't get a lot of information about the Valen class in the show. Given that its where JMS is currently writing the show, he might have particular ideas about its capabilities. more information is needed.

Chern

 

[MustEatBrains]

Hmm my mistake - I was reading into the bits I had heard about. So is this Prince just head of a House or something else? Presume this is after Vir? Or is he not mentioned?

At the time of TLT, I think that Londo is still the emperor - the prince regent is the third from the throne, IIRC. So, a definite member of the royal line, and important enough to be protected heavily.

Seeing how Sheridan always likes to get into the middle of things, I´d be surprised if he would really accept being ferried around in something unable to stand it´s own in a fight or other kind of crisis.

But as Chern said, we need more info about the Valen class - I think there are sources about it on the internet; I remember one particular article about the CGI stating how the ship was designd after shark bones. A pity I can´t remember where I found that article, will have to google it - maybe there´s more about the capabilities of the ship there

 

[emperorpenguin]

I understand the new film has the new Emperor travelling in one ship on its won which is a interestingly different image projection? Without restarting that (please don't) debate the Royal Primus may still have the beam emmitters?

now how about the new Vorchan cruiser - hopefully lets have one of them two!?

Dius Vintari is the Prince Regent, not the Emperor, that is Londo.

Yes the beam emitters can be seen on the Royal Liner.

The Vorchan-redux is awesome looking! Let's have lots!

 

[Estalies]

I'm going to say Minbari ship, at patrol or skirmish, maybe... maybe.. a raid.

as for ISA, didnt they call it the new minbari ship in the episode?

If the president is on minbar, cant he hitch a ride on the new valen class without it being an ISA ship?