Shooting at night

[Evil Trev]

We had a situation in a game a few days ago, where the Scharnhorst was able to find a target on radar, but we believe still could not shoot at it as it had not "yet" been spotted.

Does anyone know how shooting at night and radar work together? I feel there is a contradiction (possibly) in the rules, or am I just reading it all wrong?

Trev

 

[Swiss Tony]

Top of page 17 says if a ship has been detected by radar it can be fired on up to the weapons normal maximum range regardless of weather, night etc. However you don't get the radar reductions for long and extreme range penalties.

 

[DM]

There were several "blind fire" gunnery engagements during WW2. One of the most notable (and, from your perspective the most ironic) was Duke of York's initial shelling of Scharnhorst at North Cape in 1943.

 

[Alexb83]

Battle of the Surigao strait springs to mind, too. Probably the best example of night-time radar guided gunnery. US battleships got contacts at 42000 yards. Firing solution at 30000 yards. Opened fire at 23000 yards (25km) and hit with the first salvo, and the first 5/6 salvos.

 

[Evil Trev]

My query relates to the sentence that follows that:

"A ship that is detected at Night or during Bad Weather will automatically be spotted by the ship that detected it as soon as it moves into spotting range".

and under night battles

"Once an enemy ship is within 20" or less of a friendly vessel, make a command check with a target number of 8. Success means that the enemy ship has been spotted and may be attacked normally by any friendly ship within 20", as its location will be communicated to allies. Once a ship has been spotted, it will remain so until it moves more than 20" away".

The situation was that the Scharnhorst detected (not spotted) the enemy BB at approx 36", so knows it is there, but apparently cannot shoot at it, until it has actually been spotted. The section in radar says once you have been detected, and move within 20" you are automatically spotted.

JP did the honourable thing and fired his Warspite's big guns, removing one of my cruisers instead, allowing me to spot the gun flashes at long range! The "lucky ship" (Scharnhorst) was still there at the end of the game.

I must admit , we originally read it the same way as your initial response. But I cant help feeling that was not correct.

Trev

 

[DM]

Its worth pointing out at this stage that the RN generally used flashless propellant for its main guns, at least later in the war and thus the Warspite's position may not, in reality, have been revealed (the calibres of gun supplied with flashless - actually "flash reduced" - is confusing and I've seen much contradictory evidence as to its use). At North Cape the Germans had very little idea where the incoming fire was coming from because of the very small visual signature of the DoY's gun flashes. The most heavily damaged British ship during the various clashes that made up North Cape was, IIRC, the Norfolk as she was still using an older and much more "flashy" type.

 

[Alexb83]

Yes, supposedly when the 3 cruisers were firing simultaneously on the Scharnhost, she could only pinpoint one set of flashes in the snowstorm, (Norfolk, which wasn't using flashless powder) and given the weight of fire she was under she assumed she was facing a single battleship.