Ship's Sensors?

[Darkjoy]

On page 144 of the traveller core book several sensor types are mentioned. However, the electronics section of page 108 misses a few. Which sensors types should be added to the sensor system packages that are mentioned on page 108.

For example, should the standard system package also include for example visual sensors?

 

[Paladin]

That depends on whether surgery to replace your eyes with cybernec versions counts as electronics.

Isn't a "visual sensor" just looking out the window?

 

[Darkjoy]

That depends on whether surgery to replace your eyes with cybernec versions counts as electronics.

Isn't a "visual sensor" just looking out the window?

Hehe, true, but...I am pretty sure my Mark 1 eyeball can't see for 50.000 meters (even in space).

Maybe my example is wrong, so I'll use another one: which electronics package should have the EM sensors attached to it?

 

[Beastttt]

Visual sensors would include
telescopic
motion detection
shape recognition
spectral analysis
mainly it is a passive system

 

[Darkjoy]

Visual sensors would include
telescopic
motion detection
shape recognition
spectral analysis
mainly it is a passive system

Yes, but would you add the above to the standard ship's sensor package (the one you get by installing a bridge) or would you classify / add it to another package?

 

[Beastttt]

Bridge would be very basic sensors(barely enough to fly with)
what you buy in the electronics package is the long range stuff
each level of electronics should have what came before it

Visual sensors would include
telescopic
motion detection
shape recognition
spectral analysis
mainly it is a passive system

Yes, but would you add the above to the standard ship's sensor package (the one you get by installing a bridge) or would you classify / add it to another package?

 

[Darkjoy]

Bridge would be very basic sensors(barely enough to fly with)
what you buy in the electronics package is the long range stuff
each level of electronics should have what came before it

Visual sensors would include
telescopic
motion detection
shape recognition
spectral analysis
mainly it is a passive system

Yes, but would you add the above to the standard ship's sensor package (the one you get by installing a bridge) or would you classify / add it to another package?

Yes, but what I am trying to get answered is if, in your opinion, visual sensors are part of the standard package or if they belong to some other package. This was my original question but I believe it got sidetracked somehow.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

In my opinion Visual Sensors are part of the most basic package of Sensors available. More advanced sensors would have better visuals (bigger telescopes, betters motion analysis etc).

I don't see a logical reason that visual sensors would NOT be part of the basic package.

 

[Darkjoy]

In my opinion Visual Sensors are part of the most basic package of Sensors available. More advanced sensors would have better visuals (bigger telescopes, betters motion analysis etc).

I don't see a logical reason that visual sensors would NOT be part of the basic package.

OK, thanks.

How would you add the remaining sensors to the existing packages? I think that thermal and EM sensors should be added to the basic military package, do you agree?

 

[Beastttt]

the military pays for the their sensor packages just like everybody else

since this is a game that has a much simular setting as ships before the end of the of the "Golden age of Piracy"most ship that went into areas that did not have a local navy or police force went out armed with cannon
just as much as the regular nave ships did
England during the time of QE1 had all cannons made into only 5 different sizes(easier to keep track of the different sizes of shot)as opposed to everybody else

now there might be special sensor tech that the militaty owns and does not get sold on the open market
this would be something for the GM to decide

you buy what you can afford and at what tech level you have access to

In my opinion Visual Sensors are part of the most basic package of Sensors available. More advanced sensors would have better visuals (bigger telescopes, betters motion analysis etc).

I don't see a logical reason that visual sensors would NOT be part of the basic package.

OK, thanks.

How would you add the remaining sensors to the existing packages? I think that thermal and EM sensors should be added to the basic military package, do you agree?

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Thermal and EM sensors also seem pretty basic to me. Either the Basic package or the Basic Military package. Quality might be different, but an IR sensor seems like something I would want on any spaceship I was flying in...

 

[Darkjoy]

Thermal and EM sensors also seem pretty basic to me. Either the Basic package or the Basic Military package. Quality might be different, but an IR sensor seems like something I would want on any spaceship I was flying in...

hmm, until further notice from Mongoose. EM and Thermal are now basic military features and visual sensors are part of the basic bridge package.

Thanks RTT

 

[klingsor]

The hull of a ship would be dotted with sensors of various sorts allowing no blind spots - though giving good coverage in the rear quarter may be a problem depending on your perception of the manoeuvre drives. Redundancy would vary, military ships would have a much greater degree of redundancy built in.

Optical. You could probably add a broader spectrum (thermal...) with relatively little expense. Active emitters (AKA headlights) might also be found as well, not madly powerful but good for illuminating around a landed ship or for when docking with something in the dark. With good sensors you don't even need them to be madly powerful.

I am quite certain a telescope or equivalent would be part of the standard equipment - if only for determining where they are if they misjump by matching neighbouring stars to the catalogue. An important detector as well and good for getting a passive look at distant ships. Would it be a separate system or could the ships optical sensors be slaved together to produce a synthetic array telescope?

Low powered range finders, LASERs or RADAR would be pretty important for docking as well. I think LASERs (LIDAR) have better resolution than RADAR? The two systems are complementary with each other.

Densitometers. How useful would these be? I can see belters needing them and rescue services (who will handle that job by the way?) and probably the Scouts but the military? Oops, look at the range. they would be very nice for planetary bombardment - twin it with a big ass Meson gun and no bunker is safe.

Jammers. I think I would be happier to see these listed as separate systems.

One thing I know though. I need to read up on the history and practice of RADAR and what little I do know about it is very rusty - and most of that was collateral knowledge from reading about aircraft.

 

[Beastttt]

in space you could extend a boom with sensors to look behing your ship im much the same way a sub lets out a cable with sonar senors to hear what is in her baffles

The hull of a ship would be dotted with sensors of various sorts allowing no blind spots - though giving good coverage in the rear quarter may be a problem depending on your perception of the manoeuvre drives. Redundancy would vary, military ships would have a much greater degree of redundancy built in.

Optical. You could probably add a broader spectrum (thermal...) with relatively little expense. Active emitters (AKA headlights) might also be found as well, not madly powerful but good for illuminating around a landed ship or for when docking with something in the dark. With good sensors you don't even need them to be madly powerful.

I am quite certain a telescope or equivalent would be part of the standard equipment - if only for determining where they are if they misjump by matching neighbouring stars to the catalogue. An important detector as well and good for getting a passive look at distant ships. Would it be a separate system or could the ships optical sensors be slaved together to produce a synthetic array telescope?

Low powered range finders, LASERs or RADAR would be pretty important for docking as well. I think LASERs (LIDAR) have better resolution than RADAR? The two systems are complementary with each other.

Densitometers. How useful would these be? I can see belters needing them and rescue services (who will handle that job by the way?) and probably the Scouts but the military? Oops, look at the range. they would be very nice for planetary bombardment - twin it with a big ass Meson gun and no bunker is safe.

Jammers. I think I would be happier to see these listed as separate systems.

One thing I know though. I need to read up on the history and practice of RADAR and what little I do know about it is very rusty - and most of that was collateral knowledge from reading about aircraft.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

It also depends on how you think the thermal signature for the M-Drive looks.

Being a gravitic drive, it may not have much of a signature at all, so looking behind the ship would be no different than looking in any other direction.

Gravitic sensors would be another nice high tech thing to have. It might detect all those M-Drives (or artificial gravity if close enough) and help find those hiding ships.

 

[Beastttt]

things to look for
1 waste heat from a fusion/fission/antimatter powerplant(thermal)
2 trail of Helium left behind as reaction mass(spectral)
3 radiation from fission/antimater powerplants(EM)
4 gravity warping of light as the ship passes between you and the background of stars for contra grav drives(motion detection)
5 using radar and ladar(active systems)

granted the stealth option gives a -4DM to cloak these

things to ponder
1 how long can a ship stay cold with no fusion plant running to add to stealth and still start up and attack(lying in wait)
2 how long does it take to start up the powerplant
3 how long could fuel be extended if the power plant was turned down to just run life support and sensors(life boat situation)

I'm figuring that you could extend fuel usage by running the powerplant at a lower level(power plant Z for a 1200 ton ship needing 48 tons for 2 weeks as a powerplant F for a 1200 ton ship which only needs 12 tons per 2 weeks)
there by extending the ships endurance by a factor of 4
all systems are still able to be used since a powerplant F is the smallest that can be used by a 1200 ton ship

It also depends on how you think the thermal signature for the M-Drive looks.

Being a gravitic drive, it may not have much of a signature at all, so looking behind the ship would be no different than looking in any other direction.

Gravitic sensors would be another nice high tech thing to have. It might detect all those M-Drives (or artificial gravity if close enough) and help find those hiding ships.

 

[simonh]

I'm very much of the opinion that the basic sensor package on all ships would include electronically enhanced Visual, Thermal and EM sensors.

High magnification and electronically enhanced visual sensors would be a minimum requirement for accurate navigation including position fixing and identifying navigational hazards. The same goes for Thermal sensors which would be needed to correctly identify stars, planetary bodies, hazardous objects and to help identify other starships.

EM sensors would be required to detect and position sources of radio or microwave energy. I'd mandate that so that all ships at least have a basic search and rescue capability, aside from, again, helping identify other vessels and features that assist in navigation.

Note that more advanced sensor packages don't just include more sensors, they also give a better bonus at using all sensors so they include improved versions of those available in more basic packages.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Darkjoy]

Note that more advanced sensor packages don't just include more sensors, they also give a better bonus at using all sensors so they include improved versions of those available in more basic packages.

Simon Hibbs

This is not true, the dice modifier only applies to jamming and counter-jamming attempts.

 

[Marc]

England during the time of QE1 had all cannons made into only 5 different sizes(easier to keep track of the different sizes of shot)as opposed to everybody else

And this is why I love Traveller so...
The recognition of that little "...as opposed to everybody else"

For the wonderful effects it had on the Spanish ships who heard the call to run out the guns only to find vessels loaded down with shot that did not fit the barrels of any cannon aboard!

This is, or can be, the universe your players are in. Doe the Imperial Navy(as discussed on another site) have ships crossing space sharing out common design parts from manufacturing systems to assembly systems.. Building high tech designs with pre-made parts in low-tech ports where man-power is cheap and can be trained? or is the IN local-made with ships that can not, when desperate, salvage an electro-flux-regulator from that driftnig hulk and get the jump engines back on line?

And what about spare parts from that TL A Free trader? Can they save my mis-jumped TL D Far trader from its fried conductor relay circuit?

Uniformity can be its own adventure ...muhahahaha
(..what?? What do you mean they do not have the spare we need?!?!?)

 

[Marc]

Sorry for having gotten off message for this thread earlier...

High magnification and electronically enhanced visual sensors would be a minimum requirement for accurate navigation including position fixing and identifying navigational hazards.

I am very much of the opinion that I want ElectroMag sensors to lock and target well outside the visual range and give my fire order on the understanding that Energy(Laser/plasma) weapons travel at light speed. While they do admittedly defract increasingly at distance, my battles should be well over before I can see anything meaningfull of my enemy.

As for telescopes..
Much like NASA, the non-visual locates a target and only then are the telescopes brought in to see detail. If I have to have armies of scanning officers searching visual references(or hordes of processors parsing visual scans converted to electronic format) then I am going to be dead long before I spot my foe.

And if I am going to convert the vis-light telescope feed to scan by processor, why not just get a digital sensor and avoid the "middle-bot"?

Marc