Ship's Fabricator

[mavikfelna]

I need some help. Thanks to @Terry Mixon I realize I need a fabricator on my TL12 exploration vessel in my current game. I don't have a huge ship's fund but I can pull on a megacredit if I have to. We have a workshop to put in so we're good there. So on to the questions.

What size TL13 fabricator would you recommend for a 200 ton, TL12 exploration vessel that also does a fair bit of trade and passenger carrying? We have a tendency to get shot at so ship repairs are a needful thing and we're always having to buy random bits of tech and equipment everywhere we go so being able to fabricate things is a necessity. Is a 10 liter big enough?
Also, the TL13 Fab supports a bioreaction chamber and my character is a doctor so I see possible medical use as well. With a bioreaction chamber, can you print food? So could I make good, portable emergency rations to use or sell?
What about raw materials? Do we just need Common and Uncommon raw material? What is the cost for bulk purchasing it to have enough on hand for repair parts and what not?

Ok, so now the next question is, what about a TL16 Prototype Advance Fab? We're going to Darrian space and it's possible we could pick up a 1 liter external chamber. Because it's an Advanced fab, we could then have it start making more of itself. If we get it, how much material and credits will it cost to build itself into a 10 liter, a 50 liter and finally a 100 liter? The prototype 1 liter will cost 1.5MCr by it self.

What about a desconstructor? I don't know where the rules for those are. I know they exist because they're in @Arkathan's spreadsheet but no idea how to use them. I assume they can take something like a raw asteroid and break it down into it's molecular parts for use in a fab that is capable of using that kind of raw material? How much would it be to add a deconstructor to the TL16 Prototype Adanced Fab?

 

[Terry Mixon]

I need some help. Thanks to @Terry Mixon I realize I need a fabricator on my TL12 exploration vessel in my current game. I don't have a huge ship's fund but I can pull on a megacredit if I have to. We have a workshop to put in so we're good there. So on to the questions.

My work here is progressing nicely.

What size TL13 fabricator would you recommend for a 200 ton, TL12 exploration vessel that also does a fair bit of trade and passenger carrying? We have a tendency to get shot at so ship repairs are a needful thing and we're always having to buy random bits of tech and equipment everywhere we go so being able to fabricate things is a necessity. Is a 10 liter big enough?

This really depends. Some things can be fabricated in sections for later assembly. Others can't. 10 chamber liters is pretty small. 10 liters (the same as 10 chamber liters) is a cube 14.33 inches on a side. You could make it shaped differently, but those are your constraints. Is it enough? Only you can say.

Also, the TL13 Fab supports a bioreaction chamber and my character is a doctor so I see possible medical use as well. With a bioreaction chamber, can you print food? So could I make good, portable emergency rations to use or sell?

Yes.

What about raw materials? Do we just need Common and Uncommon raw material? What is the cost for bulk purchasing it to have enough on hand for repair parts and what not?

It isn't spelled out, so you literally have to come up with your own rules or use something figured out by others to explain the powdered Unobtainium required.

Ok, so now the next question is, what about a TL16 Prototype Advance Fab? We're going to Darrian space and it's possible we could pick up a 1 liter external chamber. Because it's an Advanced fab, we could then have it start making more of itself. If we get it, how much material and credits will it cost to build itself into a 10 liter, a 50 liter and finally a 100 liter? The prototype 1 liter will cost 1.5MCr by it self.

The rules say that robotics and other expensive items are pricy. 2D x 10% gets an average of 70% of the cost of buying it.

"Fabricators require materials equal to the mass of the object created. These may be everything from simple powders to rare earths or other required materials, depending on the final product. In general, these materials cost 50% of the cost of a similar purchased product, although those composed of purely common materials may have as low as a 10% material cost and those requiring rare elements may cost more to fabricate in small batches than to purchase from a manufacturer able to acquire materials in bulk. Optionally, the Referee can impose a 1D x 10% materials cost for most products and a 2D x 10% materials cost for computers, robots and complicated electronic machinery."

What about a desconstructor? I don't know where the rules for those are. I know they exist because they're in @Arkathan's spreadsheet but no idea how to use them. I assume they can take something like a raw asteroid and break it down into it's molecular parts for use in a fab that is capable of using that kind of raw material? How much would it be to add a deconstructor to the TL16 Prototype Adanced Fab?

Robot Handbook, page 119. Good news! If you get the Advanced Fabricator, Geir has said that it includes Deconstruction Chamber capability!

 

[mavikfelna]

My work here is progressing nicely.



This really depends. Some things can be fabricated in sections for later assembly. Others can't. 10 chamber liters is pretty small. 10 liters (the same as 10 chamber liters) is a cube 14.33 inches on a side. You could make it shaped differently, but those are your constraints. Is it enough? Only you can say.



Yes.



It isn't spelled out, so you literally have to come up with your own rules or use something figured out by others to explain the powdered Unobtainium required.



The rules say that robotics and other expensive items are pricy. 2D x 10% gets an average of 70% of the cost of buying it.

"Fabricators require materials equal to the mass of the object created. These may be everything from simple powders to rare earths or other required materials, depending on the final product. In general, these materials cost 50% of the cost of a similar purchased product, although those composed of purely common materials may have as low as a 10% material cost and those requiring rare elements may cost more to fabricate in small batches than to purchase from a manufacturer able to acquire materials in bulk. Optionally, the Referee can impose a 1D x 10% materials cost for most products and a 2D x 10% materials cost for computers, robots and complicated electronic machinery."


Robot Handbook, page 119. Good news! If you get the Advanced Fabricator, Geir has said that it includes Deconstruction Chamber capability!

View attachment 5747

Ok, so what size would you recommend for the TL13 fab unit? Would it be better to get an external unit? From what you said above, it sounds like even a 20-liter fab would too small. Does an external unit still count as a bioreactor?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Ok, so what size would you recommend for the TL13 fab unit? Would it be better to get an external unit? From what you said above, it sounds like even a 20-liter fab would too small. Does an external unit still count as a bioreactor?

A bioreaction chamber says it is a sealed environment, so that pretty much rules out an external fabricator for that, but you could buy it separate and have an external fabricator for everything else.

Here is the writeup for an external fabricator.

"A fabricator’s complexity limitation assumes an enclosed fabrication chamber; external fabricators cannot be as precise. Prior to TL17, external fabricators can only create items three or more Tech Levels less advanced than the device. An external fabricator requires twice the amount of time to complete an item but its mass, volume and cost is only 75% as much as a similarly scaled enclosed fabrication chamber. By moving either the fabricator or a construction platform, an external fabricator can create arbitrarily large items, given enough time and raw materials. External fabricators are available in standard sizes 10 times larger than standard enclosed fabricators."

Your small example fabricator could handle most things, but note the -3 TL limit as opposed to the normal -2. That goes away with an Advanced version. Get a tiny little 1 chamber liter external Advanced Fabricator and go to town duplicating it. Slowly.

 

[mavikfelna]

A bioreaction chamber says it is a sealed environment, so that pretty much rules out an external fabricator for that, but you could buy it separate and have an external fabricator for everything else.

Here is the writeup for an external fabricator.

"A fabricator’s complexity limitation assumes an enclosed fabrication chamber; external fabricators cannot be as precise. Prior to TL17, external fabricators can only create items three or more Tech Levels less advanced than the device. An external fabricator requires twice the amount of time to complete an item but its mass, volume and cost is only 75% as much as a similarly scaled enclosed fabrication chamber. By moving either the fabricator or a construction platform, an external fabricator can create arbitrarily large items, given enough time and raw materials. External fabricators are available in standard sizes 10 times larger than standard enclosed fabricators."

Your small example fabricator could handle most things, but note the -3 TL limit as opposed to the normal -2. That goes away with an Advanced version. Get a tiny little 1 chamber liter external Advanced Fabricator and go to town duplicating it. Slowly.

Yes, that's why I was getting the Prototype as an external.
But, I want the bio chamber so either get one separately or pick up a TL13 standard fab. But I would at least what, 30 liters, to make cloned parts for healing? That's 1.5MCr and just in range price wise.

 

[J. L. Brown]

A couple things -- that example 'Deconstruction Chamber' should really be labeled as a TL-13 'Enhanced Deconstruction Chamber'. Since it produces schematics suitable for use with a TL-13 Enhanced Fabricator, it stands to reason that it can only produce designs for things the Fab can build -- ie, TL-11 (or lower) stuff only.

Presumably there are TL-14+ 'Enhanced' Fabbers and Deconstruction Chambers (which work on stuff up to TL-12), too -- but we have absolutely no guidance on them.

Second -- having a TL-16 fabrication chamber is very different from having a bunch of TL-16 schematics for that fabricator to work from. If you want to build a TL-16 (prototype) 'Advanced' Fabber, then you will need the schematics for it. Fabbers of different sizes are different schematics.

The way the rules work, Manufacturing Plants convert Credits into Goods. Fabbers are even more hand-wavy, so this is very much a 'write your own house-rules' area.


[Edit:] I have been a bit unhappy with the Fabricator rules as they were laid out; so I posted my take here: https://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/threads/questions-about-fabrication-chambers.124097/ -- no promises, I feel these are still unfinished. But if your want something to start from, they might be useful for inspiration. [/Edit]