Ships cost an Insane Amount

[rust]

This forum needs an ignore list to protect my nerves

Ah, a little stress now and then keeps your heart fit and your brain alert.
Which proves that the Internet was designed as a public health measure
to keep the population from slowly succumbing to physical and mental in-
activity. Even a minor flame war produces as much adrenaline and chal-
lenges the circulatory system as much as jogging through the park, and
the necessity to remember the forum names of one's favourite enemies
and their weaknesses as well as some fitting insults is an excellent trai-
ning for the brain.

I really should try to convince my health insurance to pay for my Internet
access ...

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

the money grubbing merchant is just one player character option, and it is the one I have seen
least often in thirty years of playing Traveller.

What, like the crew of Serenity? ('')
Seriously, I can see both sides of this thread, and think it does come down to player/GM style and what kind of story they want to be involved in. With my group we are doing some basic accounts and trading, and frankly the system is quick and easy (yes, I know that other contibuters have described it as simplistic, unrealistic, would not be accepted by any holder of a MBA etc, but it works). In this case it helps create that illusion of normality, a counterpoint to the more adventurous activities.

On the other hand, if I ever get to run the Naval or Scout campaign I have been thinking about, there will be no bean counting. Different stories, different emphaisis.

Egil

 

[rust]

What, like the crew of Serenity? ('')

Serenity is mostly unknown over here. :wink:

The typical role models come from Star Trek or from the Perry Rhodan
series, and in both settings money is absent or only very rarely mentio-
ned at all, and Star Wars, Starship Troopers and so on also do not help
to make money a common science fiction element.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

What, like the crew of Serenity? ('')

Serenity is mostly unknown over here. :wink:

The typical role models come from Star Trek or from the Perry Rhodan
series, and in both settings money is absent or only very rarely mentio-
ned at all, and Star Wars, Starship Troopers and so on also do not help
to make money a common science fiction element.

Yes, it is fairly clear that in those science fictions, though there must be some economic somewhere, they are not an important part of a military or political setting.

The "Firefly" tv series is essentially about the crew of a free trader ("Serenity") struggling to afford their running costs (luckily, the ship seems to have been bought cash down ...), which they struggle to do and end up doing a variety of dodgy jobs to make up the cash. To be fair, they never sit down with the profit/loss ledger, but it's clearly not far from their thoughts.

Apparently there is a rpg called Serenity, I can't really see why as the whole series looks like someones Traveller Universe !

Egil

 

[rust]

Apparently there is a rpg called Serenity, I can't really see why as the whole series looks like someones Traveller Universe !

I have downloaded it when the main rules were available for free during
some marketing action, but it did not really convince me - and as far as
I remember, even this game had economics very far in the background,
the average adventure seemed to be very similar to what Traveller has
to offer.

Edit.:
Just looked it up, "Economics of a Tramp Freighter" is just one single page
(p. 72), with much less detail than Traveller offers - and weird numbers,
for example the mortgage for a Firefly in good condition is 750 Credits
per month, while the average crew member earns about 200 Credits per
month. Translated into Traveller terms, the mortgage of a Free Trader
would be about 15,000 Credits per month, rarely a sum to worry about.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Yeah, like I said the Serenity/Firefly scripts could easily be based on a player diary of a series of Trav adventures. Not 3I, definately a YTU, but never saw the point of a specific "Serenity" game when a 10 page supplement, or article in S&P, would give you all the information you needed.

That sounds quite negative, actually firefly was a fun series, but didn't quite create a winning formula, so was axed at end of first series. Much of the cultural window dressing was very much US deep south after the American Civil War (but in space), so may have lacked resonance outside the rebel states. Lots of Wild West motifs.

My point was that finance was clearly one of the hooks used to start some programs off, but others (helping friends, opposing the wicked galactic government, dodgy patrons etc) were all there as well.

Egil

 

[DFW]

This cannot be done in Traveller, since everybody knows that most characters work for money, not for glory or honor.

Ector, you've already been schooled on this point earlier. You should probably reread the thread so you don't keep making the same incorrect statements over and over.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Yeah, like I said the Serenity/Firefly scripts could easily be based on a player diary of a series of Trav adventures. Not 3I, definately a YTU, but never saw the point of a specific "Serenity" game when a 10 page supplement, or article in S&P, would give you all the information you needed.

That sounds quite negative, actually firefly was a fun series, but didn't quite create a winning formula, so was axed at end of first series. Much of the cultural window dressing was very much US deep south after the American Civil War (but in space), so may have lacked resonance outside the rebel states. Lots of Wild West motifs.

My point was that finance was clearly one of the hooks used to start some programs off, but others (helping friends, opposing the wicked galactic government, dodgy patrons etc) were all there as well.

Egil

Firefly was cancelled because the episodes cost too much to make for the ratings it was getting on Fox at the time. Fox made more money showing some reality show than it did on an episode of Firefly; that is why the last 4 episodes (already filmed, edited and ready to show) were never aired on US TV. It was about money and ratings, not about if the show clicked; at the time Fox was a very distant fourth amongst the broadcast networks, not like today.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Yeah, like I said the Serenity/Firefly scripts could easily be based on a player diary of a series of Trav adventures. Not 3I, definately a YTU, but never saw the point of a specific "Serenity" game when a 10 page supplement, or article in S&P, would give you all the information you needed.

That sounds quite negative, actually firefly was a fun series, but didn't quite create a winning formula, so was axed at end of first series. Much of the cultural window dressing was very much US deep south after the American Civil War (but in space), so may have lacked resonance outside the rebel states. Lots of Wild West motifs.

My point was that finance was clearly one of the hooks used to start some programs off, but others (helping friends, opposing the wicked galactic government, dodgy patrons etc) were all there as well.

Egil

Firefly was cancelled because the episodes cost too much to make for the ratings it was getting on Fox at the time. Fox made more money showing some reality show than it did on an episode of Firefly; that is why the last 4 episodes (already filmed, edited and ready to show) were never aired on US TV. It was about money and ratings, not about if the show clicked; at the time Fox was a very distant fourth amongst the broadcast networks, not like today.

Tv companies, eh, always seem to put profit first. If the series had clicked more folk would have watched it, and it would have become the financial success Fox wanted. They were probably hoping for something as successful as Buffy, but, Firefly just didn't seem to have enough appeal.

Egil

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Serenity is the movie that "finishes" the open storylines left behind by the series Firefly.

The RPG used the 1.ed "Cortex" System, one of the "storytelling-orientend" systems that adds a "plotpoints" approach where a player can spend plotpoints to change outcomes. Pp are also used to aquire certain assets etc. Cortex does not deal with costs very much

Ouch, sounds like a rubbish system, very glad I didn't buy the rule book, better to do Trav Firefly!

Egil

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

I just realised that "StarWars/D6", "DS9" and "Renegade Legion:Legionnaire" are marketed under a false label. They claim to be RPGs but they can't be since they have no rules to properly simulate business, the typical elements of the military background and similar elements necessary for the typical characters to get "in the role"

Ha ha!!

Egil

 

[kristof65]

...you don't support good roleplaying.

Can't you see that's a bad roleplaying?

If you play another way, then you're just not roleplaying.
...<snip>...Roleplaying is the activity defined above, everything else isn't roleplaying at all.

Not cool Ector, not cool.

I had a couple of things I was going to comment on from your posts, but the sheer number of these type statements you've made in your recent posts are just in too bad of form to warrant any other response.

 

[BP]

Ah, a little stress now and then keeps your heart fit and your brain alert.
Which proves that the Internet was designed as a public health measure
to keep the population from slowly succumbing to physical and mental in-
activity. Even a minor flame war produces as much adrenaline and chal-
lenges the circulatory system as much as jogging through the park, and
the necessity to remember the forum names of one's favourite enemies
and their weaknesses as well as some fitting insults is an excellent trai-
ning for the brain.

I really should try to convince my health insurance to pay for my Internet
access ...

:lol: Kudos, most excellent, as usual, rust!

(Ironicly, health insurance is the topic of many flame wars in the U.S. recently!)

 

[DFW]

What? It has been explained to me by a person of authority that an RPG needs to simulate reality because otherwise you are not roleplaying. So any game lacking the necessary rules and information can't be an RPG.

Crap! There goes my favourite hobby.

 

[kristof65]

Crap! There goes my favourite hobby.

Yet another thing most RPGs don't have rules for - PC Crap taking...

 

[Captain Jonah]

Woooo get this topic out of the fresher and back into the corridor :lol:

 

[Baeron Gredlocke]

Very true- the last thing my players want to do is waste game time being accountants.

Then the last thing your players want is the real roleplaying. No "real" Traveller character can forget about money. Even the Emperor itself cannot.

Oh my God! All these time I didn't realize we were doing it wrong!

You mean to tell me we've been playing Traveller for all these years, and all the fun we've had has been FAKE?

I feel like I've just WASTED the last 15 years of gaming!

Sir, I APPLAUD you for helping shed the scales from my eyes and helping me to understand that doing it RIGHT instead ENJOYING the game.

 

[rust]

You mean to tell me we've been playing Traveller for all these years, and all the fun we've had has been FAKE?

Worse than fake, it was BADWRONGFUN, and you really should be asha-
med. :shock:

Being a simulationist and in love with consistency and plausibility (= "re-
alism"), I am quite willing to come up with a very detailed economic back-
ground for my settings, but this is purely a referee tool that enables me to
get a better insight into the setting and to avoid contradictions that might
ruin the players' suspension of disbelief ("... and how did the 250 farmers
hire two battalions of mercenaries for five years ?").

Unless the players tell me that they want those background data and that
their characters wish to get involved in this part of the setting, I would ne-
ver bother them with that stuff. They want their characters to experience
adventures, and bookkeeping is not exactly known for being adventurous.

 

[kristof65]

bookkeeping is not exactly known for being adventurous.

:twisted: wouldn't that depend on whether or not you're a bookkeeper for a crime lord? :twisted:

 

[Baeron Gredlocke]

Unless the players tell me that they want those background data and that
their characters wish to get involved in this part of the setting, I would ne-
ver bother them with that stuff. They want their characters to experience
adventures, and bookkeeping is not exactly known for being adventurous.

It should be written in stone somewhere:
"You have the RIGHT to choose any motivation you wish for your character, in exchange for the RESPONSIBILITY to play that character accordingly"