Ships coming in for a landing...

[AndrewW]

Also, our TL 6/7 aircraft (commercial) only see other craft if they are using transponders.

That could change if NexGen ever gets put in place.

Really? I thought it still used transponders.

ADS-B makes use of ground stations to transmit information directly to the aircraft.

 

[rust]

You aren't going to be in voice contact unless something terrible is happening.

"Necrotic Dancer, this is Samara Control. You are free to land on Pad One.
It is the only one we have, so you should be able to locate it despite the
ongoing sandstorm. Your radar will show you something quite big on the
pad, but this is only a sand dune blown across the downport by the storm.
You can ignore it, it is less than five meters high, and we think that there
are no sand creepers hiding in it. Anyway, do not open your airlock before
we have checked the dune, something could enter your ship and eat you.
While talking about sand creepers, as far as we know they did not dig any
more tunnels under the pad since the last ship crashed through the ceiling
of their caves.

Oh, and welcome to Samara. I hope you enjoy your stay."

 

[BFalcon]

Well, again one to read up on in the Starports book, guys...

For Class A, B or C... (Class B or C may not have a highport)
Firstly, you'd contact Traffic and Flight Control, whos operators would put you into a holding orbit until a space freed up. While you wait, a customs cutter might challenge you to scan and search your ship. Once space is available, you get assigned a flight corridor through which you would pilot your ship to either the downport or the highport as you wished. I'd expect a beacon to be turned on ready for you so that your flight systems could lock onto your assigned pad. At all times, I'd expect verbal instructions with broadcast information to back it up.

For Class D, As above, but no choice of a Highport (obviously), but at least you have a verbal talkdown and maybe a beacon to guide you to the Downport. If you're using an aerodynamic ship, you also get a landing strip.

Class E
Good luck... you MAY be able to raise them on the comms to find out if there's a free pad...


In all cases, there'll only be one downport per planet - the SPA isn't going to waste money on multiple ports and you need special landing pads to take the high tonnage involved in a ship - if they had the money to upgrade the downport, they'd upgrade the existing facilities, not build another shed and tarmac - much better to actually pay for an actual fire-fighting or repair facilility. In an emergency, a sub-400 ton craft could probably use a Small Craft landing site, but remember that you'd not be subject to Imperial Law, but the local law, so anything up to seizure of your craft may be applicable if you have locally illegal goods on board (or if you failed to get permission first in some cultures).

Where the weather is bad (obviously applicable to downports only), if it's too bad, expect a holding orbit, if not then you'd probably be given the choice. If you're low on fuel, I'm sure they would be happy to provide a fuel tanker to come and top you up for a fee, but at least you'd be ok until the weather clears or a pad opens up (quite possibly related). I can't see a 200dton spaceship being thrown around too heavily though (although it might cause a drift when landing). Most of the problems caused by weather on aircraft like the Boeing 747 (400 tons) is the speed it's moving and that it's designed to be aerodynamic going forwards only. If you're relying on an aerodynamic landing, then you're going to have to wait for the weather to be sensible before attempting a landing.

Taking off, if it's aerodynamic then a high headwind is preferable... otherwise it shouldn't matter, providing it's not gusting in either case - a constant wind is far easier to deal with.

As for transponders, if you didn't have one, you'd probably not have gotten close enough to attempt a landing - an unknown craft would have been challenged long before attaining orbit in all but the most remote systems. In the event that your transponder is, indeed, offline, then the customs cutter would probably act as a guide for you (partly so the Flight Control people know where you are, but also so that if you try any funny stuff, there's an armed cutter right beside you...). Remember that starports are delicate things and Imperial property... put together, means that they'll be paranoid about it...

Rust: lol... I love it!

 

[phavoc]

Well, again one to read up on in the Starports book, guys...

In all cases, there'll only be one downport per planet - the SPA isn't going to waste money on multiple ports and you need special landing pads to take the high tonnage involved in a ship - if they had the money to upgrade the downport, they'd upgrade the existing facilities, not build another shed and tarmac - much better to actually pay for an actual fire-fighting or repair facilility.

That's not quite true. There is (usually) only a single Imperial starport per planet. But a planet can have multiple spaceports. And balkanized planets are going to generally have their own spaceports as well since they can't trust those no-good neighbors of theirs.

There will also be multiple orbital installations, including private and commercial (which also applies to ground ports). Still, the Imperium is going to centralize their spaceports, and most likely they'll handle a great deal of the ships coming into the system. But large enough industrial complexes will have space for ships to set directly down for unloading/loading, and there will be many, many shuttle pads on high-TL, high-pop planets that will depart directly to orbit for the stations and ships.

 

[DFW]

Bad weather grounds aircraft and makes ships avoid docking and that includes some pretty massive vessels. The space shuttle is a big mass yet it never takes off or lands in bad weather except in emergencies. It can be done but it can be an expensive blunder.

Aircraft have to maintain lift and thus, have lifting surfaces that causes problem with wind. And, ships avoid docking water that gets roughed up by wind. In sheltered ports it isn't really a problem.


I can see not landing when hurricane force winds are at a star port though. ZERO problem flying through such with VTOL type craft though.

 

[DFW]

ADS-B makes use of ground stations to transmit information directly to the aircraft.

Yes, based on data given by aircraft transponders. What I meant was that the airplanes themselves won't be detecting other airplanes. (no active radar sweeping a sphere around themselves...

 

[phavoc]

ADS-B makes use of ground stations to transmit information directly to the aircraft.

Yes, based on data given by aircraft transponders. What I meant was that the airplanes themselves won't be detecting other airplanes. (no active radar sweeping a sphere around themselves...

Nah, you won't see that till the advent of really cheap radar systems that you can put on a commercial airliner to give it a 360 view around itself. While they could be mounting aft and port/starboard radar systems, the airlines would throw a bloody fit about the costs. Anytime there is an unfunded mandate they pitch a huge bitch (sometimes they are even right!).

But the current system works. And assuming the FAA can actually replace the radar system they have from the 60s & 70s with something that works this century... well, it may be easier to teach a horse to sing.

 

[AndrewW]

ADS-B makes use of ground stations to transmit information directly to the aircraft.

Yes, based on data given by aircraft transponders. What I meant was that the airplanes themselves won't be detecting other airplanes. (no active radar sweeping a sphere around themselves...

Makes use of more then transponders, but most commercial aircraft don't incorporate their own radar system.

 

[DFW]

But the current system works. And assuming the FAA can actually replace the radar system they have from the 60s & 70s with something that works this century... well, it may be easier to teach a horse to sing.

I have a friend that's been an ATC since the 80's. She says that it has become a horribly bad joke.

 

[BFalcon]

Well, again one to read up on in the Starports book, guys...

In all cases, there'll only be one downport per planet - the SPA isn't going to waste money on multiple ports and you need special landing pads to take the high tonnage involved in a ship - if they had the money to upgrade the downport, they'd upgrade the existing facilities, not build another shed and tarmac - much better to actually pay for an actual fire-fighting or repair facilility.

That's not quite true. There is (usually) only a single Imperial starport per planet. But a planet can have multiple spaceports. And balkanized planets are going to generally have their own spaceports as well since they can't trust those no-good neighbors of theirs.

There will also be multiple orbital installations, including private and commercial (which also applies to ground ports). Still, the Imperium is going to centralize their spaceports, and most likely they'll handle a great deal of the ships coming into the system. But large enough industrial complexes will have space for ships to set directly down for unloading/loading, and there will be many, many shuttle pads on high-TL, high-pop planets that will depart directly to orbit for the stations and ships.

Well, if the SPA spaceport is well-placed enough, they wouldn't need to, but I hear ya on the Balkanised states example... Generally, though, unless privately owned (and for private use only), the spaceports (both high and low) will tend towards the low-end of the spectrum for the ports, being used mainly as a loading and unloading facility and, to be perfectly honest, very few would bother to run their own orbital facility when small craft or non-jump spacecraft can (cheaply) fly into orbit from a ground facility to load/unload, refuel and process the largest ships with a fraction of the cost of an orbital facility. That's not to say that they wouldn't, but that they would have to think very hard about it. Anyone trying to run an open, independant, spaceport in the same planetary territory as the SPA would probably not manage to do so, given that the SPA have tax income to back it up, unless there was excessive demand that the SPA port couldn't cope with (in which case the private port would probably suddenly become a luxury facility aimed at a high-paying, low-delay market).

More likely for most businesses would be the small "sea of tarmac with a few buildings" style of Downport that we call a Class D... (or a Class C if they're a bigger company), but with fuel refining on-site.

 

[DFW]

Well, if the SPA spaceport is well-placed enough, they wouldn't need to, but I hear ya on the Balkanised states example...

I don't see it for hi-pop, non-balkanised planets. Take Earth for example. If it had a single gov, you'd need MANY star ports anyway. Too much of a bottleneck for interstellar commerce otherwise.

 

[rust]

In the case of a planet like Earth I would expect a Type A
highport, which handles mostly the big unstreamlined ships
and the transit passengers and transit cargo, and about a
dozen Type C downports, one or two per continental region,
plus several hundred shuttle ports.

 

[DFW]

In the case of a planet like Earth I would expect a Type A
highport, which handles mostly the big unstreamlined ships
and the transit passengers and transit cargo, and about a
dozen Type C downports, one or two per continental region,
plus several hundred shuttle ports.

Add some B's to that for heavier repairs too.

 

[AndrewW]

But the current system works. And assuming the FAA can actually replace the radar system they have from the 60s & 70s with something that works this century... well, it may be easier to teach a horse to sing.

I have a friend that's been an ATC since the 80's. She says that it has become a horribly bad joke.

The WWII technology? The expensive modernization of the computer upgrade that couldn't? Or perhaps the lack of much progress on NextGen?

 

[phavoc]

But the current system works. And assuming the FAA can actually replace the radar system they have from the 60s & 70s with something that works this century... well, it may be easier to teach a horse to sing.

I have a friend that's been an ATC since the 80's. She says that it has become a horribly bad joke.

The WWII technology? The expensive modernization of the computer upgrade that couldn't? Or perhaps the lack of much progress on NextGen?

I'm not sure which has been a bigger joke.. the FAA 'modernization' program failure or the IRS modernization failure. I'd say get the government out of the way, but the Pentagon's Deep Water program to modernize the Coast Guard has proven that you can't let contractors supervise themselves out of 'self-interest'.

Oh yeah, guess we could include the stock market, bond rating agencies, etc...

 

[phavoc]

Well, if the SPA spaceport is well-placed enough, they wouldn't need to, but I hear ya on the Balkanised states example... Generally, though, unless privately owned (and for private use only), the spaceports (both high and low) will tend towards the low-end of the spectrum for the ports, being used mainly as a loading and unloading facility and, to be perfectly honest, very few would bother to run their own orbital facility when small craft or non-jump spacecraft can (cheaply) fly into orbit from a ground facility to load/unload, refuel and process the largest ships with a fraction of the cost of an orbital facility. That's not to say that they wouldn't, but that they would have to think very hard about it. Anyone trying to run an open, independant, spaceport in the same planetary territory as the SPA would probably not manage to do so, given that the SPA have tax income to back it up, unless there was excessive demand that the SPA port couldn't cope with (in which case the private port would probably suddenly become a luxury facility aimed at a high-paying, low-delay market).

More likely for most businesses would be the small "sea of tarmac with a few buildings" style of Downport that we call a Class D... (or a Class C if they're a bigger company), but with fuel refining on-site.

It's really going to be based on population and industry distribution. Lets use Earth as an example. You might have a class A downport to service all of North America (we'll call it primary), but what about Europe, or China? Both have populations and industrial capacity needs that meet or exceed NA. I would think you'd have one starport designated as the 'main' downport, but you could easily have other starports classified as A's spread around a planet that would have as much, or perhaps more, capabilities than the 'main' one.

Then again, for some worlds, having just one A port is more than sufficient for the needs of the planet and the trade passing through.

I'd also think the same would be true for orbitals. High tech planets orbits should be swarming with ships, shuttles, orbital facilities and the primary high port. I'd also think that for planets on busy trade routes, there would be stations and orbital warehouses at the edge of the 100D limit, so ships could spend the least amount of time in the system dropping off passengers/cargo and taking on new / fuel. Really busy systems might have multiple stations, say above and below the plane of the ecliptic in order to service all the traffic.

 

[DFW]

I have a friend that's been an ATC since the 80's. She says that it has become a horribly bad joke.

The WWII technology? The expensive modernization of the computer upgrade that couldn't? Or perhaps the lack of much progress on NextGen?

Finding those replacement vacuum tubes is getting difficult... :lol:

 

[far-trader]

It's really going to be based on population and industry distribution.

Agreed, to a point... but let's not forget that Starports are not generated that way. At all. Call it a bug, a feature, or whatever. Under the RAW we should figure that Starports (as Merchant Bases if you will) are for some reason(s) other than (in addition to) purely passengers (population) and industry (freight). To a large degree they are THE defacto interstellar government presence, however little or big that may be. A combination tourist/visa office, ambassadorial residence, extrality zone, and whatever. It is THE gate through which ALL interstellar travel MUST pass. At least on the civilian subject level. Militaries are a different thing.

The Class A Starport on a low pop non-industrial world will have little traffic, and be small compared to a Class A Starport on a high pop industrial world. Both will offer the same service and functional levels, only differing by capacity handled. Ditto all the other Starport classes.

Lets use Earth as an example.

OK, if we use it properly. I'm not sure what MgT Starports has to say on the subject but there's two ways to go for a balkanized world imo. A Starport for every recognized polity on the world, or the more usual single Starport for the whole world. I think the first makes more sense, and would be part of a plan by the interstellar government to work towards a single unified world government, eventually.

As a side note I think all balkanized worlds should be Client States, and only granted full Citizenship when they have proven they can be a stable contributing member, by creating a working world government. It would go a long way to explaining the government bit of the UWPs... but that's just a little MTU and wishful thinking

Also, don't get hung up on the "single" Starport issue. It can be huge, sprawling, even a full city in itself covering a large island or half a continent... and still be a "single" Starport. One doesn't have to create several Starports to handle the traffic of a bustling system, just make it bigger.

 

[DFW]

Call it a bug, a feature, or whatever. Under the RAW

Of course, under RAW. But, under RAW, there isn't trade >2 parsecs from any planet either. So, not really much of a need for starports. :lol:

 

[far-trader]

Call it a bug, a feature, or whatever. Under the RAW

Of course, under RAW. But, under RAW, there isn't trade >2 parsecs from any planet either. So, not really much of a need for starports. :lol:

...well, there isn't small independent (aka Free-Trader) freight trade >2 parsecs (not counting the Far-Trader, which is speculative trade driven). There is ample canonical >2 parsec big conglomerate trade that manages to make credits on volume and rapid turnover.