Ship is destroyed, now what?

[Old School]

By the book:

Once a spacecraft has been reduced to zero Hull, it is wrecked and becomes totally inoperable, and is beyond any repair. Those on board will find themselves without power or life support.

So what about those folks on board? What the vicorious enemy decides to keep shooting, or there is another missile salvo incoming?

Beyond the crew critical hit, at what point does the crew take damage? How would you handle this in your games once the ship is destroyed?

 

[Bardicheart]

Well first, obviously the ship has not been "destroyed" or else there wouldn't be anything for the surviving crew to be on. Disabled might have been a better word. I wouldn't say the ship isn't repairable either, its just beyond the point of battle repairs.

That aside, if it were a big battle with ships the Travellers aren't on or engaged with then I'd just kill the ship and crew off and that's the end of it. If its a ship the Travellers are on or one they are attacking I'd handle it by interpreting further hits as destroying parts of the ship with dramatic descriptions of hull sections buckling, gasses being vented into space, decks being dramatically depressurized as the ship breaks apart and so forth. If the Travellers are onboard there might be those dramatic warning alarms, lights flickering, sealed bulkhead doors that won't open, and more ominous is when alarms stop... because its so bad even the alarms are breaking, EVERYTHING is breaking O M G !!! Yeah, full Hollywood melodramatic stuff. Crew hits would kill somebody (everyone roll a die, if you roll a 1, sorry, your number is up... no 1s some poor red shirt bought it instead, sorry Bob, alas I knew him... wait was that Bob or Sam? Jim! His name was Jim too? No, you're Jim, the ship is exploding, lets get to a life pod man! :lol: ) May not be strictly by the book but if it makes for a good story, good nuff. YMMV As far as other system hits, I'd interpret them with a bias towards more dramatic descriptions. Example: Rolled a turret hit, they've all already been hit and knocked out, so instead I describe capacitors discharging with massive electrical arcs, bits of turret being blown off into space, ammo exploding (and doing more damage!) if there's any left (and maybe somebody frantically tries to jettison any remaining ammo, laser beams slicing through metal, mesons causing sudden internal explosions / buckling / warping with no warning, the guy down the corridor screams horribly as the walls around him glow eerily for a moment then dim (p-beam / radiation hit), etc. Its all just made up, at this point it would be more me creating a dramatic backdrop for the players while they try an get off the ship; or a dramatic backdrop as NPC frantically try to get off the ship the players are sadisticly / vengefully pounding into scrap metal. Long as everyone has fun, that's the thing. Just don't roll a 1 man... whatever you do, don't roll a 1. :shock: :wink:

 

[paltrysum]

The starship combat rules leave it pretty open to interpretation. For the sake of good drama, I would probably let the Travellers be alive unless they're standing right next to a component that has been identified as "destroyed," in which case they suffer some very high amount of damage, minus their armor value of course.

If they're in a ship whose hull has been reduced to zero and their opponent keeps perforating it with laser fire (or worse) then I'd give them a chance at vaporizing a player or two. I believe the game has the damage figures for ship weapons and they're not pretty.

 

[baithammer]

Once a spacecraft has been
reduced to zero Hull, it is wrecked and becomes totally
inoperable, and is beyond any repair

Pretty explicit rule.

If your hull is low, run or surrender before it hits 0.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

By the book:

Once a spacecraft has been reduced to zero Hull, it is wrecked and becomes totally inoperable, and is beyond any repair. Those on board will find themselves without power or life support.

So what about those folks on board? What the vicorious enemy decides to keep shooting, or there is another missile salvo incoming?

Beyond the crew critical hit, at what point does the crew take damage? How would you handle this in your games once the ship is destroyed?

It's assumed that all lives are lost.

 

[Condottiere]

It depends on how damage was caused.

If it's attritional, the ship may still be intact, but resemble Swiss cheese, the crew if suitably suited up, may remain very much hale and hearty.

If it's delivered in the same round, the ship may break apart at the seams, and the crew unlikely to be unscathed.

If it's delivered by the same weapon system, at the same instance, the ship disintegrates for all intents and purposes.

If the damage is in multiples of the hull factor:

And nothing penetrates plot armour.

 

[baithammer]

Hull at 0 means nothing left to hold equipment together, hence why the ship is inoperable and irreparable.

For the crew to survive, they need to eject before the hull hits 0.

 

[Reynard]

It says the ship is inoperable, not survivors. People on board may not be in the best shape but they should be intact as long as they made it into various spacesuits, emergency bubbles or the life capsule/pods.... You did buy these things for such an emergency, didn't you?! "Oh, they're too expensive and we'll NEVER need it!"

Emergency Softsuits (CSC pg. 21) or Rescue Balls/Bubbles should be MANDATORY on every ship to cover at least non-crew with crew having space suits or Emergency Hostile Environment Suits they would don during emergencies and attacks as a precaution. The first items would be in every stateroom and possibly in key locations around a ship like fire extinguishers prominently on the wall. Stewards would give a pre-flight lecture on the proper uses in case of emergency.

When the ship does take such massive damage, they are at the mercy of the attacker or the situation that brought them here. Emergency beacons announce your dilemma and location and you should have enough life support for rescue in most systems with higher port capabilities. As to combat, that attacker should, hopefully, give assistance to helpless survivors which may mean you are now captives but at least you are alive. Even pirates see opportunity here.

A game like Traveller should be about the cinematic drama and not about opportunistic Total Party Kills. When all is hopeless, show mercy and fade to the next scene. How many movies and TV shows have the heroes in a position to be gutted like a fish on the beach and end the show early only to be taken captive instead?

 

[baithammer]

Which is done before the ship is a complete wreck, you don't wait for the ship to fail structurally before hitting the emergency exit.

 

[Linwood]

So far I’ve been handling as Condottiere did - judging the effect according to how the damage was delivered.

I’ve also been assuming that 0 Hull is Both an indication that ship systems can no longer support operation - no power, no air, frame members fractured or buckled, etc. - and an indication that even shipyard repair is either Impossible or not economical. If a new vessel would cost less than repairing the wrecked one, most navies would scrap the wreck (or turn it into a practice target or Marine training hulk, etc.) and buy new.

I do allow salvage of ship’s systems from a wreck if they haven’t suffered critical hits. So far the players are delegating that to a salvage outfit rather than tackle it themselves.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I basically agree with Condottiere:

When it runs out of HP, the ship is killed, i.e. it is inoperable. It has no power, air, or heat. It does not usually explode or disintegrate. Since you never point the ship's vector into a planet or star it will not crash into anything big anytime soon.

The crew will have suffered casualties, but some or most are still alive. They will use carried craft, escape capsules, vacc suits, or worst case rescue balls to survive. Other ships and civilised enemies will rescue survivors, but probably after the battle.

 

[phavoc]

By the book:

Once a spacecraft has been reduced to zero Hull, it is wrecked and becomes totally inoperable, and is beyond any repair. Those on board will find themselves without power or life support.

So what about those folks on board? What the vicorious enemy decides to keep shooting, or there is another missile salvo incoming?

Beyond the crew critical hit, at what point does the crew take damage? How would you handle this in your games once the ship is destroyed?

I think the answer is situational. Did the last hit come from a nuke? If yes, start rolling new characters. Did the last hit come from a laser hit? Then I'd say no. This is part of the RPG element. You've reduced their ship to a hulk, but that doesn't mean all life is lost. Like in a sunken ship or submarine, against all odds, someone has survived. The rules are related to the normal ship operations. Sure, main power is down, life support is off. But that doesn't mean enterprising Travellers can't jury-rig the life support system to eke out a few more days life support. Or that they can't tap into the life support system to top off their suits (or find spares that aren't destroyed).

Assuming the enemy keeps shooting, a ship that is already a hulk can still take hits. Maybe large chunks and debris separate from the hulk, but there are no damage rolls because there is nothing left to damage. And if the players aren't wanting to kill off their characters, then the ref needs to be generous and give them a chance to survive - assuming it's not already part of their master plan anyways. Heh. :twisted:

 

[Old School]

While I think Baithammer and Shawn Driscoll have a point, I’m asking for how you would handle it within the Mongoose ruleset, which assumes that the occupants are still alive even though the ship is beyond repair. I think the rules as written are realistic than assuming zero hull points = death. A doomed shipped does not have to mean it catastrophically explodes.

Phavoc has a good point as well a ship thst is destroyed by a nuke is bad news. As is a small ship with 10 hull points that takes one last salvo of 20 missiles or ten torpedos. To me, that goes along with the thinking that some negative amount of hull points could mean that all hands are lost.

Thats the hard part of refereeing traveller - whether the party lives or dies is often a judgement call, not a dice roll.

 

[phavoc]

While I think Baithammer and Shawn Driscoll have a point, I’m asking for how you would handle it within the Mongoose ruleset, which assumes that the occupants are still alive even though the ship is beyond repair. I think the rules as written are realistic than assuming zero hull points = death. A doomed shipped does not have to mean it catastrophically explodes.

Phavoc has a good point as well a ship thst is destroyed by a nuke is bad news. As is a small ship with 10 hull points that takes one last salvo of 20 missiles or ten torpedos. To me, that goes along with the thinking that some negative amount of hull points could mean that all hands are lost.

Thats the hard part of refereeing traveller - whether the party lives or dies is often a judgement call, not a dice roll.

Yup. The role of the referee is that, essentially, of a god. After all it's a game that's supposed to be fun. I recall in the orginal LBB days that just getting a military character to survive 4-5 terms was a challenge. But then we wised up and figured out that while it was a novelty at first to repeatedly die, it wasn't much of a game.

The way you should handle things is to ensure that IF reducing said PC's ship hull to zero (and making it a space hulk), you, as the referee, have a plan B. Maybe you've decided your players need to change ships. So during combat with a pirate (perhaps 2 pirate ships to ensure you have necessary firepower), the pirate ship destroys the PC's ship, so the pirates stop firing and come alongside to see if they can salvage anything. Being bloodthirsty pirates who just 'destroyed' the players ships maybe they are careless and greedy, and the crew comes out and the PC's have a chance to sneak aboard, or kill the pirates in zero-G combat and take their ship.

I can point you to innumerable wrecks of ships that were sunk, blew up, were broken in two or were otherwise destroyed that STILL had salvageable parts or booty on board. The rule, as written, needs to be understood and not taken at face value.

 

[paltrysum]

A game like Traveller should be about the cinematic drama and not about opportunistic Total Party Kills. When all is hopeless, show mercy and fade to the next scene. How many movies and TV shows have the heroes in a position to be gutted like a fish on the beach and end the show early only to be taken captive instead?

Sure, but this is an RPG, not a show. If you remove the possibility that they can die, players might act with impunity. Now, the secret cabal of referees can all wink at each other subtly and merely threaten death without ever letting it happen, but the players have to believe their characters can die or it takes some of the enjoyment out of the game for all parties involved. Taking big risks means nothing if you can't pay the ultimate price.

 

[Pyromancer]

By the book:

Once a spacecraft has been reduced to zero Hull, it is wrecked and becomes totally inoperable, and is beyond any repair. Those on board will find themselves without power or life support.

So what about those folks on board? What the vicorious enemy decides to keep shooting, or there is another missile salvo incoming?

Beyond the crew critical hit, at what point does the crew take damage? How would you handle this in your games once the ship is destroyed?

It depends. If the hit that reduces the hull to zero is also a critical hit to the reactor, the ship explodes and everyone on board is dead. If it's simply two points of damage from a laser on a ship with two hull points left, the lights go out and the ship continues to drift in space. If the enemy keeps shooting, I would rule that every hit is a critical hit, and he can keep shooting until every system is at severity 6 and the whole ship is converted to a cloud of floating debris. The crew CAN survive this, if they are lucky.

 

[Old School]

So we havent played it out yet, but my players have made a serious strategic mistake that’s going to result in them being outgunned. Escape is likely, but not assured.

The Drinax campaign is so big I let them create two seperate teams, which has gotten unwieldy. I would never use that as an excuse to kill off a few of them, but it might be a reason to let the dice roll as will, and not intervene. . .

 

[baithammer]

Just because a ship was sunk didn't mean it was wrecked, the battleships from Pearl Harbour are a good example of this as many were raised and repaired. ( Representative of multiple critical hits rendering the ship inoperable rather then wrecked.)

 

[Bardicheart]

Heh, just wanted to +1 Condottiere's post and an additional +10 for the graphics. :wink:

 

[Reynard]

"Sure, but this is an RPG, not a show. If you remove the possibility that they can die, players might act with impunity."

I said when you reach a state that all is lost and the players know the situation is hopeless, it's not very fun to purposely kill the party to, I guess, teach them a lesson. The situation being hypothetically presented is very extreme. If players are going to fight to the death, and I've experienced that behavior, yet have nothing realistic to fight with then the referee stays neutral and continues the combat sequence until the players relent or accept destruction. Players who 'act with impunity' normally do it anyhow and that's also bad gaming behavior. However, no win situations should also be very rare. RPGs are not movies BUT they are games for fun and dying because of unfortunate circumstances isn't fun. This isn't some Japanese story that demands death for the sake of honor. That's why the ref should have the surrender card just in case.