Ship Insurance

[Jak Nazryth]

Is ship insurance covered anywhere in the mongoose rules?
My players are using an old crappy scout ship on loan to them while their "adventure class" ship is being tricked out. Tonight they will wrap up this introductory adventure and next game they will have their ship. Last time they got into a few rounds of ship combat and their scout got their hull reduced plus 2 points of armor blown off. The won the battle, but limped into port. The cost to repair the ship will be covered by the company who loaned them the scout.
Which brings me to my question. When they go out on their own, does mongoose have a mechanic concerning this area? Merchant Prince perhaps? I loaned mine out so it's not handy for me to review right now.
I only know of real world situations where I hear that some insurance companies are refusing to cover merchants in some of the pirate hot-spots between east Africa and China, or dramatically increase their rates.
Is any of this covered in mongoose? Or do players simply have to cover any damages?

 

[rust]

Merchant Prince covers the insurance of the cargo, but I have
not found any information about the insurance of the ship.
If I remember it right, GURPS Traveller Far Trader has such in-
formations, with the Traveller's Aid Society as the usual insu-
rance company for "adventuring" starships.

 

[BFalcon]

Confirmed about the cargo, but I checked the indices for all the other books up to and including Merchant and there's no mention of in-sewer-ants...

 

[BFalcon]

Just thought - any rules in Merchants and Cruisers or just ship designs?

 

[zozotroll]

No rules in M&C just ships

 

[GypsyComet]

On a ship with a mortgage, you can assume that the bank has insurance out and *you* are paying for it.

On old ships with no mortgage, there may not be any obvious insurance.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

So if your ship gets damaged in combat, you don't have to pay for repairs, because it's covered by the insurance?
One of my players asked. Never came up before so I thought I would ask. Right now I'm thinking of adding a 2% increase in the cost of a ship for basic "piracy" coverage, which will go up depending on which sub-sector you are in etc...

 

[phavoc]

I think that lienholders on a ship are going to require the operator to maintain insurance. Running some basic calcuations, I figure that annual insurance would be .005% to .007% of the value of the ship and its cargo, paid annually or as part of your monthly payment. And there should be a 1 - 2% deductible for claims.

I modeled this after my homeowners insurance. In Texas we pay some of the highest rates, so the numbers should be sufficient. Of course the insurnace company is going to require proof you were hauling those 80 tons of radioactives when your ship was hijacked before they will pay...

If your ship is enteirng into a warzone or high-risk job, I would suspect that you would pay increased premiums, perhaps as much as 1% per month.

If you want some real-world examples, do some research on shipping and insurance, and also look at the historical aspects of the cost of insurance over the last few years with ships travelling in the Indian ocean. I have heard that some ships now go around the cape of good hope because its cheaper to pay the higher fuel and crew costs than it is to pay for insurance to travel in that region.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

So if your ship gets damaged in combat, you don't have to pay for repairs, because it's covered by the insurance?

Not sure about that, I suggest that the insurance in the mortgage payments protects the lender, and only pays out if the ship is lost, to the lender.

If you get your ship shot up, you pay for the repairs.

(Though there might be a market for further insurance to cover this, as you suggest)

Egil

 

[BFalcon]

phavoc: cargo is already covered by the optional cargo insurance in Merchant Prince - so I doubt if the mortgage company would cover it too... but I'd suggest that the ship insurance might be included...

Mind you, there's no reason why an enterprising group of PCs couldn't get around the loss of a ship without it... it would just need a little creative... freeing of someone else's ship...

 

[rust]

By the way, in GURPS Traveller the visit to an Amber Zone requires
an additional insurance premium, and a visit to a Red Zone voids
the insurance, as does the participation in illegal activities (no insu-
rance for pirates, obviously).

 

[Jak Nazryth]

But insurance companies ARE pirates! :lol:

 

[DFW]

So if your ship gets damaged in combat, you don't have to pay for repairs, because it's covered by the insurance?
One of my players asked. Never came up before so I thought I would ask. Right now I'm thinking of adding a 2% increase in the cost of a ship for basic "piracy" coverage, which will go up depending on which sub-sector you are in etc...

No. The lien-holder has loss coverage ins. This covers you skipping (and ship never recovered), the ship being destroyed, etc.

It would cover the loss to the lien-holder, NOT to the owner. It is mortgage insurance (PMI, reinsurance). Just like what gets rolled into a home mortgage payment. It covers the bank not the home owner.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

I'm not talking about PMI, I'm talking about damage.
My house if Florida went from $650/yr to $4,900/yr between 2000 and 2006 because of all the hurricanes ripping through the state. The premium was based on replacement cost, which was rolled into my mortgage payment each year. In all the homes I've owned I always paid the 20% down so I've never had to deal with PMI.
And that cost did not include flood damage because my house was not in a flood plain. (Even though technically the streets could flood on a 100 year storm) my house was a standard frame construction on a stem wall (finished floor was almost 3' above finish grade). Therefore I chose not to include it (It would have added another $500 or so/yr).

This is the kind of minutia that drives some RPG's crazy about Traveller. BUT, ships DO get damaged in fights. So who pays for replacing a jump drive in a pirate attack? Is the cost covered by "the bank" the players are making payments too, and therefore the players pay nothing for the new drives, hull, sensors, etc?
Or should we as GM's add a rider about pirate attacks/dangerous areas and include a higher premium?

 

[DFW]

I'm not talking about PMI, I'm talking about damage.

Then no, it isn't in the mortgage that the owner pays. As, the rules state what damage is and costs that the player/owners have to pay (pg. 143 MRB). A GM could certainly create "comp/collision" insurance that the characters could buy.

 

[phavoc]

There's no reason why you should not be able to claim for pirate attacks on your insurance. It would be akin to a lightning strike. Or, using the flood insurance issue, maybe its a seperate policy/rider that has to be factored in. Sure makes it a lot easier to rid PC's of excess cash...

 

[DFW]

There's no reason why you should not be able to claim for pirate attacks on your insurance. It would be akin to a lightning strike. Or, using the flood insurance issue, maybe its a seperate policy/rider that has to be factored in. Sure makes it a lot easier to rid PC's of excess cash...

Of course you could. But, you'd have to purchase said insurance 1st. Certain things/situations would or wouldn't be covered based on the policy purchased by the ship owner.

 

[phavoc]

There's no reason why you should not be able to claim for pirate attacks on your insurance. It would be akin to a lightning strike. Or, using the flood insurance issue, maybe its a seperate policy/rider that has to be factored in. Sure makes it a lot easier to rid PC's of excess cash...

Of course you could. But, you'd have to purchase said insurance 1st. Certain things/situations would or wouldn't be covered based on the policy purchased by the ship owner.

Sure, that's a given. You'd need to have ship inspection, etc. I'd think there would be insurance agents aplenty at any Class A or B starport, and fewer at a C and below. But any insurance policy is going to have restrictions on it. Okay, well, there are a few specific exceptions, but in this instance I don't think they'd come into play.

And your referee could happily tie up the PC's for years in court too...

 

[DFW]

But any insurance policy is going to have restrictions on it. Okay, well, there are a few specific exceptions, but in this instance I don't think they'd come into play.

And your referee could happily tie up the PC's for years in court too...

It all depends. If the gov issued pirate warnings for specific systems and you went there and were attacked, it may not be covered if the Ins policy forbids travel to systems under a "pirate warning". It all depends on the policy...

 

[rust]

While it is currently possible to insure a ship against pirate
attacks, the payment depends on the trade route served
by the ship, and in the case of regions with a high number
of piracy incidents the payment is not much lower than the
value of ship and cargo.