Ship Design Philosophy

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Alphabet Jump Capable Fusion Power Plant

Manufacturer: Junkers Raumschiff- und Motorenwerke AG

Jumo

P00aA'8.8 3.125-tonnes MCr 4.0
P00aA'8.9 3.125-tonnes MCr 3.8
P00aA'8.A 3.125-tonnes MCr 3.6
P00aA'8.B 3.125-tonnes MCr 3.4
P00aA'8.C 3.125-tonnes MCr 3.2
P00aA'8.D 3.125-tonnes MCr 3.0
P00aA'8.E 3.125-tonnes MCr 2.8
P00aA'B.C 2.5-tonnes MCr 4.0
P00aA'B.D 2.5-tonnes MCr 3.8
P00aA'B.E 2.5-tonnes MCr 3.6

Notes
1. Jumo P00aA'8.8 is open sourced.
2. A 0.1-tonne super charger which costs an additional MCr 0.5 has been added to enable the power plant to energize a jump drive to enable a clean transition. It's no longer necessary, since the power plant is now derived directly from Adventure class engineering.
3. Jumo power plants can be used to most existing manufacture of jump or manoeuvre drives, but are best calibrated to other Jumo drives, and usually can be used interchangeably.
4. Is there a tech level seven prototype? High Guard doesn't leave any space open for that option, and we seem to be having trouble in real life achieving that.
5. The aA' power plant should have sufficient juice to energize a laser, though probably not two.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Armaments and Anti-Missile Missiles

More like anti-torpedo missiles, since you'd like survive a missile hit. Or have I been down this route already.

Torpedoes are like fifty times bigger than missiles, and predictable as to where they want to go. This seems to require a software tweak to make it function, rather than a specialized missile, though they could make one optimized to take out torpedoes.

In theory, the anti-missile missile would need less fuel since it needs to cover less range.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Armaments and Railgun ammunition

A barbette railgun takes up five tons of space, includes space for 20 shots of ammunition and deals 3d6 damage on a successful attack. Each ton of railgun ammo contains twenty shots

“Turret” drones are low tech short range low manoeuvrability fighter drones equipped with missiles or rail guns

Weapon(s) are described as being a five-tonne barbette, with an additional one point two tonnes of ammunition for twenty four slugs, which probably explains why I thought that ammunition was separate for railgun barbettes.

That means that the actual railgun is 3.5-tonnes if you plan to mount it as a fixture.

 

[Condottiere]

Probably 3.0-tonnes, if you have to account for the barbette shell and turning mechanism.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Sensors and Stealth

I had this thought that in order to minimize electronic emissions from a ship, they'd put the sensors in a pod, and trail it a couple of kilometres behind it, but actually, all it probably does is to have a better chance on locating other vessels trying hard to become invisible.

For some reason, I came up with a variant, where you have a five thousand tonne pod acting as the platform for a distributed array, though at that size, it pretty much can be self-propelled and autonomous, so kinda pointless. Though for a dreadnought, it would add another platform for another sensor suite while underway, though I'm sure there much more efficient ways to achieve the same effect.

Though if you keep your velocity, and switch off the manoeuvre drives, the pod could be small enough just to support an extended array, which does seem like a viable option. Though once you want to use the manoeuvre drive, it's time to unextend those arrays.

 

[wbnc]

Spaceships: Sensors and Stealth

I had this thought that in order to minimize electronic emissions from a ship, they'd put the sensors in a pod, and trail it a couple of kilometres behind it, but actually, all it probably does is to have a better chance on locating other vessels trying hard to become invisible.

For some reason, I came up with a variant, where you have a five thousand tonne pod acting as the platform for a distributed array, though at that size, it pretty much can be self-propelled and autonomous, so kinda pointless. Though for a dreadnought, it would add another platform for another sensor suite while underway, though I'm sure there much more efficient ways to achieve the same effect.

Though if you keep your velocity, and switch off the manoeuvre drives, the pod could be small enough just to support an extended array, which does seem like a viable option. Though once you want to use the manoeuvre drive, it's time to unextend those arrays.

Your on the right track it seems. Navies have been using towed arrays in the real world for a while https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_Towed_Array_Sensor_System

Moving a sensor away frm your hull would cut down on electronic noise generated by you internal systems. it would also have the advantage of giving oyu two views of the local space. You would basically be creating an Inteferometer with a huge cross section.

in short,Two sensors take readings, then a computer compares and combines the readings to come up with more accurate results. the more sensors you have, and the larger distance between them increase the effectiveness of the system.

as for using an extended array, that would work on a drone combine Enhanced Signal processing, advanced sensors, and An extended array. then a power plant, and a drone control systems...to created a towed drone.

Just off the top of my head it wouldneed to be a 20 ton smallcraft to make the systems fit..but ou could then add a small drive and allow the drone to maneuver on its own if the cable snapped.

 

[Anonymous]

A network of drones each rigged with the sensor kit you mention in tight beam communication with the "mother" ship would also allow you to go active with a relatively inexpensive ship to get targeting information. I think it's also been recently mentioned that any defended system is gonna have a whole bunch of small craft dotted around the system using passive sensors to detect then relay that information to the defending ships

 

[Condottiere]

You don't have to stick with one model or approach, which would vary between static and dynamic, defence, patrolling or attacking.

 

[wbnc]

A network of drones each rigged with the sensor kit you mention in tight beam communication with the "mother" ship would also allow you to go active with a relatively inexpensive ship to get targeting information. I think it's also been recently mentioned that any defended system is gonna have a whole bunch of small craft dotted around the system using passive sensors to detect then relay that information to the defending ships

I agree 100% on that, networking the drones, and towed packages would increase the effectiveness of a system several times over.

nd I also agree that any system capable of at least TL-8-9, with a C or better star port would have a basic system monitoring network.f for no other reason to help starships navigate in and out of the system...systems with strict governments, and a high law level would also want to control their import export traffic to prevent smuggling, and subversive materials/personnel.

You don't have to stick with one model or approach, which would vary between static and dynamic, defence, patrolling or attacking.

Hmmm now ya got me thinking..... A mixed bag would be a great addition to the resources available to a large ship, or system defense network. Drones fitted with solar cells for long term operations, would be a good thing to have loitering around in the system. Ya wouldn't have to feed, or pay them overtime.

 

[Condottiere]

Until they unionised.

 

[Anonymous]

Can anyone point me to the book which details traffic control in system?

I don't own the star port book which would be the likely candidate and I'm pretty sure it's not detailed in the other Mongoose books. It'd be cool to establish protocols. In the third imperium I can see how it would be something done by humans (cos its dated like that!) but I'd see it as a function the ships computer would do. The ship would drop out of jump at a targeted location which would be set by the departure system and time/date, that way each ship has a unique place to drop out of jump to remove any possible conflicts. In the 3D of space there are a lot of points you could be routed to and the information could be generated by a semi random process to ensure pirates couldn't be sure where exactly their prey would be. The ship would acquire its location, announce it's presence and request a vector in to the port. I'd add that it would have a berth allocated at this time and place it's orders for fuel and life support which would be ready to stock the ship with as it berthed. In busy systems I can also imagine that the port traffic control would take control of the ship's auto pilot to guide it in. Now I know the third imperium doesn't generally allow networking in that way with a ship but I'm sure there could be some kind of security checks to make sure only the traffic control computers are flying your ship.

 

[Anonymous]

Condottiere, please excuse the thread tangent.

In Traveller a starship is said to be at 0 velocity when it initiates jump.

Is that relative to what? The planet it just left? The star that's whizzing round the galaxy or the Galaxy relative to some other astronomical body?

Or perhaps relative to the star/planet it's heading towards?

 

[wbnc]

I kind of see traffic control working like this

Each orignating system has an arrival area. size and location dependant on thr traffic from that systems

Once a shi arrives in system it quickly moves to a parking zone, where it waits for clearance to enter the inner system how long ship is parked depends on traffic, and local regulations. Probably while a ship is parked in a holding slot, customs and security fores can have a closer look at the ship or board it for inspection.


Once cleared to enter the inner zone of a controlled space, the ship gets a Flight path to the nearest high port, or planet.

Once in the area of a station or planet the shi is handed over to docking or entry controller. and recieves a more detailed flight plan depending on traffic and delays on the station/planet..a ship could find it's cutting circles in space for a while even on an approach path. redirected to clear way for higher priority traffic or to control the volume of traffic int eh final approach area.

Once in final approach the local controller takes over and directs a ship to a landing area or docking port. at this point tugs, may come out and do the final docking of larger ships while a smaller ship is brought in on maneuver thrusters only and can dock on manual or automated control if it's available.

I've landed at a couple of big airports and it works sort of like that, depending on traffic they stack flights in holding patterns and then at several stages they hand control over form higher to lower level controllers who direct flights to avoid unpleasant, unplanned, navigational events.

they also like to separate different size aircraft, getting to close to a big bulky airliner, or cargo plane is risky..the smaller air craft can turn pretty sharply and avoid collisions better than a 747, which steers like a truck compared to a small Cessna or Gulfstream.

I'd also say they would route traffic away from habitats, local shuttles and transports, and almost never let a ship fly directly across a city or important facility.....no one wants a mobile fusion reactor with a few million pounds of cargo and liquid hydrogen in it's belly landing on a schoolhouse, or apartment block..heck for that matter if it crash landed a mile away it would still be bad...and a 200 ton freighter accidentally clipping a work station would be nasty.

ell that and the turbulence forma 747 can tear a Little Cessna right out of the air.....trust me cleaned up after one of those unpleasant events.

 

[Condottiere]

1. The way I see it, the commercial ship captain will plot a minimum distance between presumably the starport and the closest jump point at constant acceleration, with the ship turning over at the half point and constant deceleration, to achieve zero velocity relative to the universe, which means all other astronomical bodies in the system are still going on their merry way, but his ship isn't, though I suspect some probably are still coasting, since you can turn over early and then twiddle with deceleration in case you miscalculated.

2. Traffic control depends on actual traffic and the starport factor; unless there are terminals or waystations pre-positioned, there probably are large general areas with least time set aside for arriving and departing starships, subdivided probably over estimated arrival times, again speculatively at least into seven different zones according to the day of the week, and probably divided into another four zones depending on the time of day.

3. You can see and predict positions of departing starships, so departure areas could reasonably expected to be more confined, whereas arriving ones are more random in time and space; and there may be military reserved space, since necessity may require unplanned for jumps.

 

[Condottiere]

Spaceships: Hulls and Contents

Try this for an exercise.

Take the cheapest hull, in this case the two million schmucker hundred tonne hull, and calculate a factor one armour. That would be two point five percent of volume and costs fifty thousand schmuckers.

Congratulations, you just acquired a hundred tonne hull, ninety seven point five tonnes available, at a fortuieth of the cost.

But have you?

In a way, this is the reverse of a planetoid hull, because there you have to drill baby drill out the interior, here, you have enclosed ninety seven point five tonnes of empty air, or vacuum, depending.

One other aspect to be considered is if the shell needs interior bulkhead support.

That probably can be solved by having an additional bulkhead support the middle, or rib it like a zeppelin.

The next issue are the interior fittings, like artificial gravity, electrical wiring, datalines, and plumbing. You could anchor the bridge to the hull, but an interesting question is whether artificial gravity and inertial compensation is organic to the bridge, or any other mentioned personnel facility, such as staterooms, sickbays, libraries, etcetera. This would not apply to either engineering or cargo bays. And then, of course, passage ways.

You'd have to specify specific access points, like cargo hatches.

Of course, you could enclose a planetoid, thereby giving it inherent streamlining, and then carve out the interior at four thousand schmuckers a tonne.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, I am not entirely sure what point you're trying to make with the above post but here's a stab at answering.

You can't land a hollowed out rock on a planet with an atmosphere (or likely anywhere unless its a pretty flat rock that lets you put undercarriage somewhere appropriate.

The design sequences are massively hand waved. They have to be to enable idiots like me to quickly and easily create designs for use in game. If you need a few degrees in engineering to mock up a free trader, it's going to exclude just about everyone. (I'm sure there are engineers playing but that doesn't mean they want to have to use their knowledge in a game).

The need for interior bulkheads, life support, artificial gravity etc are all subsumed within the premise of "the hull".

As an aside, I am hopeful that MgT v2 has started or if I am really optimistic, finished, the integration of ships, small craft and vehicles.

 

[wbnc]

2. Traffic control depends on actual traffic and the starport factor; unless there are terminals or waystations pre-positioned, there probably are large general areas with least time set aside for arriving and departing starships, subdivided probably over estimated arrival times, again speculatively at least into seven different zones according to the day of the week, and probably divided into another four zones depending on the time of day.

There is one thing that would worry the heck out of me if I were a traffic planner for any large system. Schedules of incoming ships are amost impossible to determine ahead of time. While large companies could put their flights on a semi-predictable timescale. there would be no way of telling the next system over that a ship was headed their way except to carry the dispatch on a ship.

one day you have only the one Super freighter hauling ore that arrives every three months, then the next day you have three far traders jumping in within hours of each other. two days later ten freighters, a corvette, and a diplomatic courier come popping out of hyperspace...oh and the second Ore carrier that was delayed by a miscalculated jump variable.

 

[dragoner]

The design sequences are massively hand waved. They have to be to enable idiots like me to quickly and easily create designs for use in game. If you need a few degrees in engineering to mock up a free trader, it's going to exclude just about everyone. (I'm sure there are engineers playing but that doesn't mean they want to have to use their knowledge in a game).

Because when they did try to make it more crunchy, they got both the concepts and numbers wrong, which when you are an engineer is like nails on a chalkboard (and why people don't use them anymore). Hand waves are best, imo, esp for sci-fi vehicles made from sci-fi materials. They did pretty good with the story part, which is what it is all about for an rpg anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

That's why I suggested there are certain areas in space reserved for ships jumping from certain systems on certain days. You never know exactly what time they'll drop out of jump.

I'm not explaining this very well at all but there's a way I don't know the right name for that you can be issued a key code of some kind that's unique to you, plug that number into a part of your navigation computer that randomly generates a location to drop out of jump. With the combination of a unique code and the random generator inside your nav comp, you will come out in a place where no one else will and no one else will know ahead of time where that will be.

My brain understands the idea, can't quite put it into the right words that may make sense to the rest of you!

 

[dragoner]

A parallel unique ID system wouldn't be too hard, and given space's volume, easy to do the coordinates. Another thing would be where the body is on it's orbit, so that ships don't jump in on the other side of the star system.