Ship and vehicle design rules

jaz0nj4ckal

Mongoose
Folks:
Is there a manual or book that gives details on how to create vehicles? I am looking for something that I can make my own tank, APC and Aerospace fighters.
 
Supplement 5 Civilian Vehicles and Supplement 6 Military vehicles both contain the (flawed) vehicle design rules. They both contain the same rules, so either book would do (the only difference between the two are the sample vehicles in the book. the design sequences are the same). Its not a great system though. Last I heard, Mongoose was making a new book for vehicles with new design rules to fix it. It will also include rules to design power armor.

Edit: And according to the release schedule, it should be out this month, though it is still listed as a pre-order.
 
Jeraa said:
Supplement 5 Civilian Vehicles and Supplement 6 Military vehicles both contain the (flawed) vehicle design rules. They both contain the same rules, so either book would do (the only difference between the two are the sample vehicles in the book. the design sequences are the same). Its not a great system though. Last I heard, Mongoose was making a new book for vehicles with new design rules to fix it. It will also include rules to design power armor.

Edit: And according to the release schedule, it should be out this month, though it is still listed as a pre-order.

You say the instructions are flawed. What do I have to look out for when I use these books?
 
I personally think they're fine. They're just a bit complex and you will occasionally struggle to make real world vehicles. However I've shown on the forum that you can make the Mark 1 tank, the Challenger and a variety of vehicles like light grav tanks and fighters.

If you want to make sci fi vehicles, and don't mind the very occasional bit of strangeness, the current rules are absolutely fine, and well detailed. With a bit of imagination you can make some awesome stuff... I once did a thread on steam powered vehicles, like a steam tank and a steam bomber, and a steam powered Zeppelin aircraft carrier
 
jaz0nj4ckal said:
Folks:
Is there a manual or book that gives details on how to create vehicles? I am looking for something that I can make my own tank, APC and Aerospace fighters.

Id wait until Supplement 5-6: The Vehicle Handbook is released in the next couple of weeks. The current civilian and military vehicles books are ok, but making vehicles can be a bit complex.
 
barnest2 said:
I personally think they're fine. They're just a bit complex and you will occasionally struggle to make real world vehicles. However I've shown on the forum that you can make the Mark 1 tank, the Challenger and a variety of vehicles like light grav tanks and fighters.

If you want to make sci fi vehicles, and don't mind the very occasional bit of strangeness, the current rules are absolutely fine, and well detailed. With a bit of imagination you can make some awesome stuff... I once did a thread on steam powered vehicles, like a steam tank and a steam bomber, and a steam powered Zeppelin aircraft carrier

This is what I am looking for. I am doing a planet that is modeled off of the Dr. Who episode “Genesis of Daleks", but have more of an Earth civil/Cold War, which is locked in a bitter battle. I want to build a grav Centurion Tank.

What vehicle books did you use?
Thanks
 
Just book 5, military vehicles, as well as CSC for additional weapons but there are enough guns in the vehicle book to keep you going...
 
barnest2 said:
Just book 5, military vehicles, as well as CSC for additional weapons but there are enough guns in the vehicle book to keep you going...

OK so I am going to wait until the new books come out; however, it was burning a hole in pocket so I got the books as ebooks.

(little off topic) The rules for creating a craft is very indepth; however, no more complicated then what GURPS 3.0 Vehicle rules are. Now talk about hours wasted building vehicles.
 
They are in depth indeed. I really like that depth.
One curious thing is about nuclear fusion and how low power it is relative to say turbines... but I dont care :P I just like making interesting vehicles...
 
barnest2 said:
Just book 5, military vehicles, as well as CSC for additional weapons but there are enough guns in the vehicle book to keep you going...

Supplement 5 is Civilian Vehicles. Supplement 6 is Military Vehicles.
 
barnest2 said:
They are in depth indeed. I really like that depth.
One curious thing is about nuclear fusion and how low power it is relative to say turbines... but I dont care :P I just like making interesting vehicles...

I have not glanced at the books yet since I am still at work (work..work...work...crazy), but maybe it allows for a lighter reactor in weight, compaired to the turbine. Thus having a higher power-to-weight ratio, but I'm not sure, since I have not looked at the material yet...will when I get off work...
 
Nope. Fusion reactors are heavy and relatively low power. They use a lot less fuel, but since fuel has negligible weight and size unless you want very long ranges, then its not really an issue.
 
Lets see, fusion is first available at TL 8, and has a minimum size of 50 cubic meters at that TL. a 50 cubic meter fusion plant has a power output of 1000 (20 per cubic meter), weights 10,000kg, requires 50 liters of fuel per hour, and costs 500,000 credits.

A turbine of equivalent size and TL puts out 26 power per cubic meter, but because of the power efficiencies on the next page, actually puts out 1.5 times that. So 39 power per cubic meter (almost twice the fusion plant), for a total power output of 1950. It only weighs 4,500kg, and costs 212,500 credits. The only drawback is that it does require 900 liters of fuel per hour.

Lets make the turbine have the same power output as the fusion plant. It needs a total power output of 1000, so a 26 cubic meter plant would do. That drops the weight down to 2,340kg, the cost goes down to 110,500 credits, and now only requires 468 liters of fuel per hour.

Hydrogen fuel cells are also more power efficient. A 50 cubic meter fuel cell puts out 27 power per cubic meter (total of 1350), weighs 7,500kg, requires 100 liters of fuel per hour, and costs only 90,000 credits.

Of course, all those are big plants. Lets look at something smaller, say 1 cubic meter. We'll have to advance to TL 12 to get a fusion plant that small. Turbines and fuel cells stop at TL 10.

TL 12 fusion plant: 24 power, 150 kg, 1 liter fuel per hour, 15,000 credits.
TL 10 turbine: 30 power, 125kg, 8 liters fuel per hour, 5,000 credits.
TL 10 fuel cell: 22 power, 125 kg, 1 liter fuel per hour, 2,400 credits.

All powerplants can also be made fuel efficient (half the fuel per hour, double the cost of the plant) or improved fuel efficient (one quarter the fuel, 4 times the cost). An Improved Fuel Efficient TL 10 Fuel Cell of 1 cubic meter only requires 0.25 liters of fuel per hour, and costs 9,600 credits.

If you do some conversion, you can see that you can power a starship with Improved Fuel Efficient fuel cells better then you can a fusion plant. They would be half the price, and require only 2/3rds the fuel. Drawback is a 2% loss in power, which is easily made up when you but in a slightly bigger fuel cell. (Easily done with the cost savings, and the tonnage savings from less fuel required.) Makes you wonder why all of those Imperial starships mount TL 15 fusion plants, when technology from 5 TLs earlier performs better for cheaper.
 
Jeraa said:
Lets see, fusion is first available at TL 8, and has a minimum size of 50 cubic meters at that TL. a 50 cubic meter fusion plant has a power output of 1000 (20 per cubic meter), weights 10,000kg, requires 50 liters of fuel per hour, and costs 500,000 credits.

A turbine of equivalent size and TL puts out 26 power per cubic meter, but because of the power efficiencies on the next page, actually puts out 1.5 times that. So 39 power per cubic meter (almost twice the fusion plant), for a total power output of 1950. It only weighs 4,500kg, and costs 212,500 credits. The only drawback is that it does require 900 liters of fuel per hour.

Lets make the turbine have the same power output as the fusion plant. It needs a total power output of 1000, so a 26 cubic meter plant would do. That drops the weight down to 2,340kg, the cost goes down to 110,500 credits, and now only requires 468 liters of fuel per hour.

Hydrogen fuel cells are also more power efficient. A 50 cubic meter fuel cell puts out 27 power per cubic meter (total of 1350), weighs 7,500kg, requires 100 liters of fuel per hour, and costs only 90,000 credits.

Of course, all those are big plants. Lets look at something smaller, say 1 cubic meter. We'll have to advance to TL 12 to get a fusion plant that small. Turbines and fuel cells stop at TL 10.

TL 12 fusion plant: 24 power, 150 kg, 1 liter fuel per hour, 15,000 credits.
TL 10 turbine: 30 power, 125kg, 8 liters fuel per hour, 5,000 credits.
TL 10 fuel cell: 22 power, 125 kg, 1 liter fuel per hour, 2,400 credits.

All powerplants can also be made fuel efficient (half the fuel per hour, double the cost of the plant) or improved fuel efficient (one quarter the fuel, 4 times the cost). An Improved Fuel Efficient TL 10 Fuel Cell of 1 cubic meter only requires 0.25 liters of fuel per hour, and costs 9,600 credits.

If you do some conversion, you can see that you can power a starship with Improved Fuel Efficient fuel cells better then you can a fusion plant. They would be half the price, and require only 2/3rds the fuel. Drawback is a 2% loss in power, which is easily made up when you but in a slightly bigger fuel cell. (Easily done with the cost savings, and the tonnage savings from less fuel required.) Makes you wonder why all of those Imperial starships mount TL 15 fusion plants, when technology from 5 TLs earlier performs better for cheaper.

I take it - that is what you mean by the instructions being flawed.
 
So now all we need is an update as to when the new Vehicles book will arrive (Matt...anyone out there....???? :P)

DW

Edit:-
(That will teach me to miss threads marked "New Books" :oops: Roll on February :D )
 
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