Shadows - no anti-fighter, how do they win?

[mollari_uk]

I've just done a trial game of a Minbari Sharlin against a Young Shadow ship and I came to a standstill at the end.

The shadow ship destroyed the Sharlin but the Minbari fighters were still left (as the Shadow fighters are crap). But then the Shadow was stuck. It's impossible to get the fighters in the front arc so it can't win. I thought that the thing to do would be to escape to hyperspace, but in an Annihilation scenario the person with the last ships on the table wins.

Seems stupid no? How can shadows win against fighters with no anti-fighter?

 

[Iain McGhee]

You could have disengaged the Shadow Ship and still won, unless the Shadow was crippled in which case it'd be a draw (at 1pt War:10VPs for killing the Sharlin, give 3+5 for disengaging or 5+5 if crippled). The game ends when only one side has ships on the table, but you still use VPs to work out the winner.

 

[Lokai]

just a note - shadow vessels/vorlons can NOT be crippled. neither has a threshhold. the second number next to the shadows hitpoints is the amount of damage caused by a single beam that would cause the shadow ship to become pinned.

 

[Iain McGhee]

Quite right, I forgot about that change. Haven't tried out the Shadows with 2e yet (but the Brakiri are due to run into them in my next campaign :evil: )

 

[Lokai]

very nice, just getting into the game myself got a few friends interested plus found a couple of local people. Just starting to round up some miniatures so we can play a number of different races. have to use the counters in the mean time.

 

[Lokai]

as to how shadows can win, if your playing a single warpoint with either shadows OR vorlons i would not take a single ship for just this reason. If you took say one of their battle level scout variants and 2 raid level scouts you'd have similar firepower and they'd be able to cover each others backs when it comes to fighters. plus then having that scout would make stealth roles easier to make. although the vorlons at least do have antifighter so fighters arn't as much an issue as say being swarmed by numerous smaller vessels that could easily maneuver out of their front firing arcs.

 

[Harry Lonsdale]

You could have disengaged the Shadow Ship and still won, unless the Shadow was crippled in which case it'd be a draw (at 1pt War:10VPs for killing the Sharlin, give 3+5 for disengaging or 5+5 if crippled). The game ends when only one side has ships on the table, but you still use VPs to work out the winner.

In Annihilation, the winner is the one with at least one ship on remaining on the table. VPs aren't used.

 

[Iain McGhee]

I'll shut up then

 

[Rabidchild]

In Annihilation, the winner is the one with at least one ship on remaining on the table. VPs aren't used.

Ah but fighters are not ships: victory to the shadows! :twisted:

 

[Karhedron]

I have to agree that taking a single ship is always risky for the very reason you discovered, you have nothing to hose fighters off your ships with in an emergency.

Annihilation is a tricky one as normally fighters will not be able to do damage fast enough to seriously bother a Shadow Ship. If they are lucky/numerous enough to get any damage past the shields the Shadows will just regenerate the few points of damage they cause.

 

[Da Boss]

Yes and no - it does not say that fighters do not count in this scenario - and fighters count as ships for most things now...............?

 

[Sulfurdown]

In Annihilation, the winner is the one with at least one ship on remaining on the table. VPs aren't used.

Ah but fighters are not ships: victory to the shadows! :twisted:

No victory for Shadows, unless otherwise stated fighters are ships for the game purposes. So when he jumps out - the Minbari would win.
The only real hope you'd have is to not take a Shadow ship and probably not even the Stalkers - the stand-by against fighters is mostly going to be the Scout. Anything else and chances are you're going to be eaten away by the fighters since the Shadow Ships can't outrun the Nial.

 

[Greg Smith]

Anything else and chances are you're going to be eaten away by the fighters since the Shadow Ships can't outrun the Nial.

Unlikely, with the Shadows ship's shields and self repair.

Park the Shadow ship in the very corner of the table. Either the Nials come at you and you can shoot at them, or it is a stalemate - in which case count up the VPs to see who won.

 

[Da Boss]

I concur - been playing Minbari quite a bit in the campaign recently - Nials are a nusiance when teamed with ships as they strip your shields but on their own - not a threat unless in large numbers - a Scout can surrive 3 or 4 flights and has the speed to get away from them.

Greg gives a good idea if thats all thats left against you

 

[[Omicron]Urobach]

i find it funny....or strange.
all B5 players knows the B5 episode where the shadows destroys this narn listning post in quadrant 14... don´t know the name of the episode, currently.
they destroy this fast frazis with one beam salvo...and in the game your shadow ships can´t deal with fighters without the support from an scout or stalker...forgot the fighters, useless. :evil: i understand that the powerful shadow ship don´t can have accurat on its beam...that would be to overpowered. but an decent anti-fighter ....waht is wrong on this?

 

[Lokai]

well if shadows beam was turreted to some extent like it was in B5Wars or even 1st edition ACTA they'd be fine but anywho

 

[mollari_uk]

The new Shadow ships are balanced but don't reflect that seen in the show when it comes to fighters. I realise that there has to be a compromise, but Shadows in the show seem to fire their weapon in all directions. It's clearly seen that they fly and fire backwards at various times.

Turret mounted may make them far too good, but this would get round all the problems they have with fighters.

Let's not even mention their own fighters

 

[Misiolak]

Few things:
-shadow scout is not an anti-fighter solution, as it has only 8" range. There are no figters in game which would be unable to move out of arc/range. Even if you take multiple scouts and cover each other, you are wasting many of your points to protect against figters, not to destroy them. And you still need something to shoot at ships.

-I hate "edge of universe" tactics. I find puting ships in corners unsportsman-like. The enemy should have a chance to get behind you, without withdrawing becouse you happen to sit on the edge of conflict zone.

-Shadow fighters are... not worth even mentioning.

 

[DrSeltsam]

well if shadows beam was turreted to some extent like it was in B5Wars or even 1st edition ACTA they'd be fine but anywho

A turret version of the Shadow Ship ( like it was in 1st edition ) would be way too good ... and I'm a Shadow player :roll:
It would not only "solve " the fluff orientated strange fighter problem - it would generate new problems regarding balance against other ships.

Like Misiolak mentioned : Scouts are no solution for anti-figther action. A ship with Escort trait is a anti-fighter solution ...

Hiding in a corner of the table is a very strange idea ... try to explain this using the battles seen in the series :roll:

IMHO a small amount of anti-fighter dice ( similar in form and AD like the Vorlon counterparts - but not more ) would be ok.

 

[TGT]

my suggestion as its a bit of fun is to say to your opponent this is the posible situation to stop it happening can you grant me Anti fighter 2
the fleet lists are new and its obviously something that needs to be fixed
if he says no well...your decision wether you play him again at least with shadows