Shadows - Hyperspace Mastery

[Hash]

I have a few queries...probably should place on rulesmasters then I would deny myself the wisdom of the ACTA forum

Hyperspace Mastery (described on p137 of the fleet lists) allows Shadows to:

"Shadow vessels may enter realspace from hyperspace at any point, without risk of deviation....They can move, attack and otherwise act normally during the turn it leaves hyperspace."

Ok fine but how does this work exactly. Does the Shadow player nominate a ship and put it immediately on the board or does he use a special action to tell his appointment that something is coming...somewhere (he doesn't place any counters on the board!) and then gets to place the ship in the next turn?

I've read and re-read p137 and also p26 in the main rulebook and I just don't get it. I played two opponents in the last Sentient Rabbits tourney with ships from hyperspace and both played it differently.

Also can a Shadow player keep his entire fleet in Hyperspace?! The rules in the fleet list seem to read like he can...what's to stop a Shadow player waiting until the last (one or two depending on interpretation of jumping in rules) turn jumping in behind, shooting something and claiming victory with minimal chance of your opponent firing back.

I know it's very in keeping with the show but it sounds horribly broken!

 

[Da Boss]

It does not help that there was confusion in the initial rules due to it saying that ships with AJP "immeditely" come through a jump point - which caused alot of problems with players and playtesters and was almost immeditely changed in the FAQ - to next turn.

As I understand it a Shadow player still has to declare they are entering normal space in one trn and then the next they can enter - wherever they like (unlike jump points)

IF the scenario allows them to put a ship in hypersapce, They may also keep any/all of their ships in hyperspace. If not they can't

 

[Burger]

Hmm, looking at it, I can't see where it says that normal ships can't enter realspace on the turn the JP is created! It says it for entering hyperspace, but not for entering realspace.

In the case of the poor old Shadows though, they get:

Instead, the Shadow vessel is simply removed into hyperspace at the beginning of its next turn

Next turn... so you IJP! in turn 1 but place no counter. Then you appear at the beginning of turn 2.

 

[Greg Smith]

Hmm, looking at it, I can't see where it says that normal ships can't enter realspace on the turn the JP is created!

In the FAQ.

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

This means that the Shadow player can use fighters in hyperspace as initiative sinks, declaring that each fighter is entering realspace on turn x, before he has to move any ships on the table.

It states that fighters can enter realspace on their own from hyperspace, so they would have to declare that they are doing so on turn x, before appearing on turn x+1.

Is that how it's supposed to work, or don't fighters have to declare, which means that they can just appear and jump a lone ship with complete surprise?

 

[Burger]

This means that the Shadow player can use fighters in hyperspace as initiative sinks, declaring that each fighter is entering realspace on turn x, before he has to move any ships on the table.

It states that fighters can enter realspace on their own from hyperspace, so they would have to declare that they are doing so on turn x, before appearing on turn x+1.

Is that how it's supposed to work, or don't fighters have to declare, which means that they can just appear and jump a lone ship with complete surprise?

Except fighters move in the fighter movement phase, not in the normal initiative order.

 

[Da Boss]

I think therefore we played it correctly Hash

How was it played in your other game?

 

[Hash]

Tank let me just declare and jump in...it really doesn't make much difference given no counter is placed though!

 

[Da Boss]

The only real difference is that you have to wait a round but no major issue I agree

 

[Shadow Queen]

Still think the Shadows were screwed out of the Scream!!!! when they pass near any non First One ships.

 

[Prophaniti]

You can't keep your entire fleet in hyperspace. You have to have a ship on the table to enter from it.

 

[Da Boss]

Shadows can - as long as the scenario allows one ship to be in hyperspace - they all can be. p137 of the fleet book

 

[Burger]

Shadows can - as long as the scenario allows one ship to be in hyperspace - they all can be. p137 of the fleet book

Yeah, but this does conflict with the victory conditions for most scenarios... most games end when there's no ships left on table. Solution: keep a Shadow Fighter on the table! Finally, a use for them!!! :lol:

 

[Greg Smith]

Yes, the Shadows do need to start with at least one ship on the table in Ambush or Assassination, or they lose immediately.

They don't for Convoy Duty, Panetary Assault, Recon Run, or Space Superiority.

Whether they need to start with ships on the table in Flee to the Jump Gate is ambiguous.

 

[Hash]

A fighter IS a ship though

 

[Greg Smith]

It is indeed. So one fighter is all thet the Shadows need to stop them losing Assassination or Ambush immediately.

I wasn't contradicting Burger's assertion that there was a use for Shadow fighters, I was just pointing out it applied to two scenarios.

 

[Nightmares about Minbari]

Shadow fighters actually make pretty good assault fighters, especially against advanced anti fighter ships. Their shields mean you need two hits each to kill, and with hull 5 that needs six shots on average spread.

Massed against a single ship, they can rack up a considerable amount of damage while taking few casualties, if any.

However, as assault fighters, they need protecting form superiority fighters. Shame the shadows don't have a superiority fighter to go with them, or even a superiority version. Of course the Shadowfury would be perfect for the job, so maybe that's where the design comes from, the Shadows had sub-contracted the construction of a superiority fighter to the Psi-corps.

 

[Burger]

Shadow fighters actually make pretty good assault fighters, especially against advanced anti fighter ships. Their shields mean you need two hits each to kill, and with hull 5 that needs six shots on average spread.

I don't know how many times this has been said already, or how anyone could have missed the numerous threads complaining about it...

SHIELDS DO NOT HELP AGAINST ANTI-FIGHTER!

 

[Da Boss]

sadly its true - the last word from MS was "I am not averse to the interpretation that shields could stop AF fire" or similar but no actual rule change

and so still the baby shadows die.........................