Shadizar Boxed Set Map?

[Mayhem]

Now, what would be cool would be if Vincent were to just sketch out on a sheet of paper (small enough to fit in a scanner) a very rough idea of the view of Shadizar's layout that he had in mind when he was writing the scenario.

No detail, just the outline of the city, the main gates, the main routes, the most important and major landmarks, the general layout of what is a poor area, what is a rich area, where he market is, that sort of thing.

It would probably only take 10 minutes. As I said, just a very rough sketch, not a work of art.

How about it, Mr Darlage?

 

[Wulfhere]

Found the Idea very interesting really.
Would help for the moment before another solution can be found. Probably as a downoad, would be perfect.

THat would really help

 

[UncleBear]

I didn't need a map when I wrote the material - I just put the city in my mind, mentally put myself there, and wrote. The Games Master can just describe the transition between one location toward another as needed. Howard put many stories in cities and towns and I doubt he made a map of any of them.

For the most part, I agree. I rarely use maps in my games. I find a lot of RPG artwork in general roleplaying to be merely distracting filler unless it is directly useful (illos of monsters, weapons, clothing, stuff that establishes culture, customs and "feel").

However, there's more than utility at stake here. 160 softbound pages (a 96 page book and two 32 page books) does not justify a $39.99US price tag in the minds of many consumers. All of the above PLUS a cool and useful poster-sized map makes the boxed set "worth it". Whether it's a necessary item or not, it's the big sexy shiny object that establishes why this isn't a ~$25 sourcebook. If the map (regarldess of its status as original or plagiarized work) is just ass, then the perception of value is greatly reduced.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello all. I am from Spain (sorry for my bad english) and just recently bought the boxed set, I ordered it from a RPG books shop about 2 weeks ago, and I didnt know about the map thing. (too late)

Just one question for the Mongoose guys:

Did you retrieved all the wrong boxes you sent to the shops?
Did you explain this problem to all the shops who are selling it?

I ask this because the guy who sold me the box doesnt want to refund my money, and I want to know if is possible that they got the wrong boxes without knowing nothing about this.


Thanks.

 

[lastbesthope]

Hi all,

Sorry to jump in on this thread so latre but I won a copy of Shadizar from the caption competition in S&P #17, was presented with it whilst there for the Call to Arms tournament. (Now I just need to buy the Atlantean (or any) Edition and I'm good to go)

So I was wondering if anyone from Mongoose knew when the new map would be available for download/snail mail replacement? I apologise if it has been stated already but I've only had time to scan over this very long thread.

Cheers

LBH

 

[XcomSquaddie]

Hello all. I am from Spain (sorry for my bad english) and just recently bought the boxed set, I ordered it from a RPG books shop about 2 weeks ago, and I didnt know about the map thing. (too late)

Just one question for the Mongoose guys:

Did you retrieved all the wrong boxes you sent to the shops?
Did you explain this problem to all the shops who are selling it?

I ask this because the guy who sold me the box doesnt want to refund my money, and I want to know if is possible that they got the wrong boxes without knowing nothing about this.


Thanks.

I do not represent Mongoose, but there has been no talk at all of retrieving the errored maps.

What Mongoose has stated, is that you can either download a revised version, when it is available or mail in your errored copy for a revised copy. Here's a quote:

Hi guys,

Well, you can imagine my feelings towards the artist - heads are going to roll. . .

Onto more jolly matters, we are commissioning a new Shadizar map. I'll make an announcement when it is ready and you will either be able to download it or send in your old map and we'll post you a brand spanking new one

Oh, and BTW, there is water in Shadizar

As far as MP or the game store knowing about it in advance, no one knew anything until it was posted here and then whole situation blew up.

In any case, Mongoose has stated that they have commissioned a new map, but no dates have been mentioned. I'm sure more details will be posted once everything is finished.

You can also check out the forums over at EnWorld. Several of the Mongoose personnel posted over there, responding to threads like this one.

Hope all that helps.

Oh, yeah. Welcome to the boards!

 

[Bladerunner]

The Map is wrong .. the counters are labeled wrong. The pictures on the counters are borrowed from earlier art work from the other books in the series. The book II and Book III are in black and white like a photo copied version.
The writing seems fine yes but the quality is not worth the 40 dollars U.S. which cost me 51 dollars Canadian.
I hate to say it I am not satisfied with it. I am rather disappointed. Disapointed at the lame excuses the staff at mongoose give on this forum. They treat their customers like crap when it comes to a mistake they made. You label the paying customer as the bad guy for complaining about the product. Well I am sorry but we can complain.We pay for it and we pay your salaries by buying this stuff.
Instead of taking the error and doing something about it and being professional about it and apologising to the ones who bought it. you belittle them and make them feel it is the fault of the customer. The paying customer i might add.
What arrogance.
You try to smooth it over with the excuse you don't need a map. Hell we paid for it. I am currently working on my own OGL project. If i ever get this way shoot me.
I have several of the books in this line and really hope you sort this out as a business or you are going to lose customers. I know several others who have bought these products as well and are dissatisfied. I keep telling them you are working the bugs out and have faith but i am losing faith myself in this Conan line.
I hope seriously it works out. I love the Conan idea and have seen you take it beyond Gurps and TSR.
A good product equals satisfied return customers and lots of profit.
A business should know this. Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[Mayhem]

Instead of taking the error and doing something about it and being professional about it and apologising to the ones who bought it. you belittle them and make them feel it is the fault of the customer. The paying customer i might add.
What arrogance.
You try to smooth it over with the excuse you don't need a map. Hell we paid for it. I am currently working on my own OGL project. If i ever get this way shoot me.

Wow, way to spout off whilst not actually reading the thread.

If you *had* read the mongoose replies, you would see that they *have* apologised, *are* actually doing something about it, and not one official mongoose person has *ever* said - or even implied - that any of the complainants were somehow in the wrong for complaining.

***

Yes, some other private individuals with no connection to Mongoose have stated that some of the complainants are being a bit whiny and over the top, but they have that right.

And generally, such comments are only directed at people who make posts full of overblown hyperbole, insults, and inaccuracies. Hmm...

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with Bladerunner words, we are the customers, we are the ones who buy the product. Without us, there are zero sales. I hope MP is now working for getting back the product form the various distributors. I dont want to believe that a company like MP lets that problem unfixed in a right manner. I dont want to believe that, with full knowing of the wrong map thing, they still let this product be in the shops.


Thanks for the explanation Darth Mickey, but i'm still waiting answer of the MP staff.

 

[Pharoah Kromium]

I agree with Bladerunner words, we are the customers, we are the ones who buy the product. Without us, there are zero sales. I hope MP is now working for getting back the product form the various distributors. I dont want to believe that a company like MP lets that problem unfixed in a right manner. I dont want to believe that, with full knowing of the wrong map thing, they still let this product be in the shops.


Thanks for the explanation Darth Mickey, but i'm still waiting answer of the MP staff.

I don't like to mock the afflicted or hard-of-thinking but sometimes it's difficult....
As Mayhem said: "Read the thread" - if you do you will see that this problem didn't come to light until the module was already distributed. Mongoose were duped by an unscrupulous person.
They didn't choose to give customers a duff map.
They haven't tried to avoid responsibilty for their product.
They've apologised.
They've set things in motion to correct the problem.
They will replace the faulty product.
What more do you want?

 

[The King]

...
What more do you want?

Well, the head of the map maker of course.

Still it is a fact that it will be hard to tell in the future when you buy a box whether it is the old version or the corrected one.
So it would be good if Mongoose would tell us that they took back all the boxes or that they will give a special notice enabling to make a difference between both versions.
e.g. I still don't know which version of the core book is proposed on Amazon.
I own the 1st version of the rules and this is sufficient to play but I wouldn't appreciate to order the same book a second time.

 

[Anonymous]

"What more do you want?"

Nothing more, i'm full of everything at this moment.

I tried to be gentle, i tried to obtain an explanation to the problem that satisfied ME. Maybe Pharaoh is happy with the map. Me not.

I got robbed and mocked, like everyone who got the product, like the MP guys, as you say too. ("Oh! We have no idea of how this map came into the box! The artist shall be burnt alive!"- see, Pharaoh? I can mock too, it's easy).

Yes, i'm afflicted, hard-thinker and more. But i've never opened a catsup bottle just to find mustard inside, or bought a red pen that paint in blue. Even when that simple things go wrong, are thrown out of the market immediately.

There's people that cannot get his replacement because the shipping fee will be more superior than the product cost. It's a solution, yes, but for the ones who have no other choice. But what about the people who is about to get his box? Why are the wrong boxes still out there?

I've been playing for almost 15 years. And if we are now in the "Golden Age" of RPG, is better to give the old products another choice.



Thankfully, for the resourceful roleplayer, there's a lot of info about Conan on the net, for free. And the next time I need a city or a new prestige class or a new feat, whatever, i'll do by myself and my gaming group.
And with the 40 bucks we save, we'll do a nice party-time.


Apologies all around.

 

[Thoth Aw C'mon]

"What more do you want?"

Nothing more, i'm full of everything at this moment.

I tried to be gentle, i tried to obtain an explanation to the problem that satisfied ME. Maybe Pharaoh is happy with the map. Me not.

I got robbed and mocked, like everyone who got the product, like the MP guys, as you say too. ("Oh! We have no idea of how this map came into the box! The artist shall be burnt alive!"- see, Pharaoh? I can mock too, it's easy).

Yes, i'm afflicted, hard-thinker and more. But i've never opened a catsup bottle just to find mustard inside, or bought a red pen that paint in blue. Even when that simple things go wrong, are thrown out of the market immediately.

There's people that cannot get his replacement because the shipping fee will be more superior than the product cost. It's a solution, yes, but for the ones who have no other choice. But what about the people who is about to get his box? Why are the wrong boxes still out there?

I've been playing for almost 15 years. And if we are now in the "Golden Age" of RPG, is better to give the old products another choice.



Thankfully, for the resourceful roleplayer, there's a lot of info about Conan on the net, for free. And the next time I need a city or a new prestige class or a new feat, whatever, i'll do by myself and my gaming group.
And with the 40 bucks we save, we'll do a nice party-time.


Apologies all around.

It is kind of annoying that Mongoose seems to be screwing up a lot. Okay it was only a few mistakes- with the original rulebook and Shadizzar boxed set- but they are putting out a lot of product in a pretty short period of time. Having spent months working on a RPG of my own, i can attest to how much work is involved.

But maybe in addition to posting a new map to people who send the current one in, and having the new one available for download, maybe Mongoose can make available a free adventure to go along with the new map. Maybe even something that touches upon a lost map or a fake map that leads to a hidden treasure or something. Like a fake map that the party is told leads to hidden treasure actually leads to a nest of evil cultists or a group of picts or something that someone wants cleaned out. Or even this fake map could become part of the Legends of this wicked city, and have the adventure make use of this somehow.

The point is, if this free adventure is a quality one, and provided free to the community, and if it touches upon the the party's use of a fake map, it could be a funny and fun way to "make it right" with people who may be real upset about this latest mistake.

I think this is a pretty good idea. C'mon Mongoose, whatta ya say?

 

[Anonymous]

"Latest mistake?" From a guy who can't spell Shadizar? Gimme a break. Oh, I forgot, the people who post here are human and thus allowed to err but Mongooses are from the planet Perfect where everything is just right. Listen up. They got screwed by an artist. They said sorry. they are commissioning a new map which presumably they will have to pay for. That's 'making it right'. What you are angling for is a quick something for nothing.

If you are so clever that you couldn't be ripped off by a criminal I suggest you offer your services to the police, who are no doubt desperate for that sort of talent. The rest of us with half a brain will sit and wait for Mongoose to get a new map done and get on with our gaming without spouting forth on a subject about which we know nothing more than what we perceive to be correct.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

The Map is wrong .. the counters are labeled wrong. The pictures on the counters are borrowed from earlier art work from the other books in the series. The book II and Book III are in black and white like a photo copied version.
The writing seems fine yes but the quality is not worth the 40 dollars U.S. which cost me 51 dollars Canadian.
I hate to say it I am not satisfied with it. I am rather disappointed.

Contrary to your post, no one is going to treat you like crap for not liking a Mongoose product. People may disagree with you, but hey they have that right.

Disapointed at the lame excuses the staff at mongoose give on this forum. They treat their customers like crap when it comes to a mistake they made. You label the paying customer as the bad guy for complaining about the product. Well I am sorry but we can complain.We pay for it and we pay your salaries by buying this stuff.

Excuses? Since you didn't read the thread, let's examine the situation, shall we?

WarhoonSlayer makes his initial post on Feb 03, 2005 1:53 pm.
Mongoose_Carnifex (a company representative) makes a reply onThu Feb 03, 2005 1:59 pm. That's less than 6 minutes. On Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:08 pm M_C reposts stating that the company aknowledges the problem, was unaware of said problem and is looking into it. That's 9 minutes later, for a grand total of 16 whole minutes. That's a pretty damn good response time in my book.

ABout ten minutes later (Feb 03, 2005 2:18 pm) another Mongoose rep posts back and later, (Feb 03, 2005 3:47 pm ) the product author posts.

On Feb 04, 2005 11:22 am, less than 24 hours later, the Site Admin (another Company Rep) posts, stating that a new map was in the works and explaining the mail-in/download options.

How is this treating a customer like crap? Where are they making excuses? Do you have any idea of how it sounds when you post comments like that without even reading the thread?

Instead of taking the error and doing something about it and being professional about it and apologising to the ones who bought it. you belittle them and make them feel it is the fault of the customer. The paying customer i might add.
What arrogance.

Oh please. You do understand the difference between those of us who are regular posters and those that actually represent the company? Show me one post where a Mongoose rep was rude or belittling.

You try to smooth it over with the excuse you don't need a map.

Okay, this fairly boggles the mind. Read this next part carefully.

The people that were talking about not needing the maps were NOT Mongoose employees. They did not work for Mongoose Publishing. (still with me?)

The people involved did in fact, debate the usefulness of city maps in general. But, like I said, THEY DON'T WORK FOR MONGOOSE!!!

Now let's get a few things straight here.

As a consumer, you have the right to express your opinions about a product. The message boards for the company is one of the best places to do that.

But when you make statements that clearly illustrate a lack of research and situational awareness, then you open yourself up to criticism. And ridicule.

Moving on...

...
What more do you want?

Well, the head of the map maker of course.

Nah. Just his balls.

I tried to be gentle, i tried to obtain an explanation to the problem that satisfied ME.

What more do you want them to say? One of their employees plagurized copyrighted material. They explained the situation and the steps they are taking to remedy it. What else is there to say?

There's people that cannot get his replacement because the shipping fee will be more superior than the product cost. It's a solution, yes, but for the ones who have no other choice. But what about the people who is about to get his box? Why are the wrong boxes still out there?

First, the cost for shipping a map like that back would be in the range of $2-$3 US. I know ANY additional cost is unreasonable, but that is certainly not unaffordable. Besides, Mongoose hasn't discussed shipping yet. Maybe they'll do a pre-paid post thingie or something.

 

[Pharoah Kromium]

Now let's get a few things straight here.

As a consumer, you have the right to express your opinions about a product. The message boards for the company is one of the best places to do that.

But when you make statements that clearly illustrate a lack of research and situational awareness, then you open yourself up to criticism. And ridicule.


What more do you want them to say? One of their employees plagurized copyrighted material. They explained the situation and the steps they are taking to remedy it. What else is there to say?

There's people that cannot get his replacement because the shipping fee will be more superior than the product cost. It's a solution, yes, but for the ones who have no other choice. But what about the people who is about to get his box? Why are the wrong boxes still out there?

First, the cost for shipping a map like that back would be in the range of $2-$3 US. I know ANY additional cost is unreasonable, but that is certainly not unaffordable. Besides, Mongoose hasn't discussed shipping yet. Maybe they'll do a pre-paid post thingie or something.

Thanks for the attempt at some sanity Darth, however, I suspect we're onto a loser with this one. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" or in this case "Think".

 

[Bladerunner]

If they want to stay on top of the editing problems don't keep pumping these books at a rapid rate. I would rather wait two or three months to get a quality book myself.
Aparently as of late and it is not only this Shadizar boxed set it is others of this line as well that has errors and has been rushed to the presses.
I have all the books publish thus far and so does several others i know and they have noticed as well. I myself bought the first edition and was shocked when the Atlantean Edition came out. No way was i going to rebuy the book. Same as this box set...No way am I going to have to repurchase a map or anything for it. I know they said they are going to fix the map situation. Focus on the map first and fix this product and the other errors as well. The art and the counters are mixed up. What is with the Sharkmen anyways? Are not sharks saltwater? There is no ocean near by? The map looks like a coastal town with water on the edge.
Why black and white printing for the books II and III and not colour? Why only colour printing for the first book? Why use art from the previous books for counters? Why even the pictures of various main characters on them? Why a stygian picture and call it a zamoran?
Why does the counters pictures and labels not match the cards picture and labels?

Maybe I ask too many dam questions.. but hey I bought it and want to know?
Get rid of the quantity attitude and go for quality.

 

[Anonymous]

If they want to stay on top of the editing problems don't keep pumping these books at a rapid rate. I would rather wait two or three months to get a quality book myself.
Aparently as of late and it is not only this Shadizar boxed set it is others of this line as well that has errors and has been rushed to the presses.
I have all the books publish thus far and so does several others i know and they have noticed as well. I myself bought the first edition and was shocked when the Atlantean Edition came out. No way was i going to rebuy the book. Same as this box set...No way am I going to have to repurchase a map or anything for it. I know they said they are going to fix the map situation. Focus on the map first and fix this product and the other errors as well. The art and the counters are mixed up. What is with the Sharkmen anyways? Are not sharks saltwater? There is no ocean near by? The map looks like a coastal town with water on the edge.
Why black and white printing for the books II and III and not colour? Why only colour printing for the first book? Why use art from the previous books for counters? Why even the pictures of various main characters on them? Why a stygian picture and call it a zamoran?
Why does the counters pictures and labels not match the cards picture and labels?

Maybe I ask too many dam questions.. but hey I bought it and want to know?
Get rid of the quantity attitude and go for quality.

It's not the volume of your questions, but the fact that the majority are inane. Most of us saw that books 2 and 3 were B&W before we bought it. You do appreciate that if they use brand new art for counters and make everything colour the overheads will skyrocket and then the price would be higher and they'd you'd trundle on here and bitch about the high price. As for repurcahsing the map, at what point is it going to sink into your head that they will replace the map free of charge? If clowns like you don't ruin it by pissing them off they might even go easy on postage.

But you just carry on blindly with your preconceived opinions. Don't let reality get in the way.

 

[Bladerunner]

[/quote]

It's not the volume of your questions, but the fact that the majority are inane. Most of us saw that books 2 and 3 were B&W before we bought it.

First off.How in hell did you see the books were black and white.. What you have Xray vision and can see thru the box before you bought it?
Really that is one neat power you have there Guest.. or should i say super guest.

You do appreciate that if they use brand new art for counters and make everything colour the overheads will skyrocket and then the price would be higher and they'd you'd trundle on here and bitch about the high price.

The price is high for the quality. I have bought better box sets that all source books were in colour for the same if not less. And I bought the dam thing so If I want to bitch like everyone else it is my right. Unless you are suddenly were oppointed the King of the world and you have laser beems for eyes along with the x ray vision and are going to stop people from speaking ones mind.

As for repurcahsing the map, at what point is it going to sink into your head that they will replace the map free of charge? If clowns like you don't ruin it by pissing them off they might even go easy on postage.

Now remind me here...Who is bitching?

But you just carry on blindly with your preconceived opinions. Don't let reality get in the way.[/quote]

Did you even buy the box set? Are are hot winds always spewing from that gapping hole. If I want to create my own reality so be it at least it is apparently better than your nazi like world without free thought and ideas and the ability to speak my mind.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Just out of curiosity, why is colour so important? The original AD&D books were black and white, and I consider them quality writings. I very much enjoyed Fantasy Flight Games' Legends & Lairs materials, and they were also black & white. Atlas Games' Nyambe only had a dozen or so pages in colour, yet is also a high quality book in my mind. Also, Atlas' Occult Lore is in Black and White; it has seen a lot of use in my DnD games. Green Ronin's The Book of the Righteous is also Black and White and is a quality product. Mongoose's Quintessential line is Black and White, and I am impressed with those. I am not sure where equating quality with colour printing comes from. Why is colour so important to you, Bladerunner?