SF-ACTA future(TNG-Voyager) ideas?
- Thread starter retzlaffmd
- Start date
They have a timeline here
http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Timeline.pdf
Y185 is the end of the General War, the period ACtA is operating in - the ISC crop up and then the next 20 years is Andromedans, then the Trade Wars which is basically the excuse to use all generations of X-ships.
Y225 is in the PDF and essentially signs the SFU off saying 'End of recorded history. Presumably a third generation of X-ships was developed, but The Next Generation is not within the scope of the Star Fleet Universe.'
So nope, you get under a half century from the General War to the end of time as the SFU knows it
http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Timeline.pdf
Y185 is the end of the General War, the period ACtA is operating in - the ISC crop up and then the next 20 years is Andromedans, then the Trade Wars which is basically the excuse to use all generations of X-ships.
Y225 is in the PDF and essentially signs the SFU off saying 'End of recorded history. Presumably a third generation of X-ships was developed, but The Next Generation is not within the scope of the Star Fleet Universe.'
So nope, you get under a half century from the General War to the end of time as the SFU knows it
One thing to bear in mind is that, aside from whatever may lay forward in the timeline through Y225 (which should also include details of an assault by the Xorkaelians, the guys running the far side of the galaxy, in Y210), the SFU timeline also goes back.
While the ships and characters of Star Trek: Enterprise are not covered by the licence, ADB does have its own version of the Early Years; a look at the emergence of tactical warp drive in the Alpha Octant, and the evolutionary steps it took on the way to the "modern" era we see in ACtA:SF already.
The pre-Star Fleet Terrans have no NX-01, but they (and the Vulcans and Andorians) had their own ship types prior to the development of the first saucer-and-nacelle hulls; as did the five pre-ISC species, which only gradually overcame their long-standing mutual distrust in order to establish the unified society they become by the time they first discover the "insane empires" beyond their borders in Y160.
So, there is still a lot of ground to cover, even with the cut-off point at Y225 to account for.
While the ships and characters of Star Trek: Enterprise are not covered by the licence, ADB does have its own version of the Early Years; a look at the emergence of tactical warp drive in the Alpha Octant, and the evolutionary steps it took on the way to the "modern" era we see in ACtA:SF already.
The pre-Star Fleet Terrans have no NX-01, but they (and the Vulcans and Andorians) had their own ship types prior to the development of the first saucer-and-nacelle hulls; as did the five pre-ISC species, which only gradually overcame their long-standing mutual distrust in order to establish the unified society they become by the time they first discover the "insane empires" beyond their borders in Y160.
So, there is still a lot of ground to cover, even with the cut-off point at Y225 to account for.
I always wondered why nothing much was done for the Middle Years period. It's relatively peaceful (apart from the Hydrans coming back and the usual Lyran/Kzinti, Klingon/Tholian, Gorn/Romulan wars and a six year war between the Federation and the Kzinti) and there isn't a demand for quick built warships (that led to the war cruisers, war destroyers and NCAs).
You'd think there'd be a variety of experimental ships (something like the various non-standard ships built in the interwar period, ships like the Surcouf or the Nelson, experimental stuff and things built with the lessons from previous conflicts).
Also some of the Y era cruisers are still in frontline service with some navies in that period (Lyrans and Gorn for example) so some of the W era ships might be the national guard/training ships that the Y ships replaced when they were removed from frontline service). Given the Gorn Y destroyer was in frontline service till the Romulans got warp technology and how tight fisted the Gorn assembly was with military spending, I can easily imagine refitted W ships doing national guard duties into the Y130s and 40s if not longer.
I think the various ideas, experiments and variants navies tried out in the middle years would make an interesting supplement. To some extent things like the Federation OCA (enlarged version of the Texas light cruiser) fall into this category, and the fast ships and light dreadnoughts (though they were built in the Y160s).
Also with no massive galaxy spanning conflict you might see more explorer style ships (less weapons, more labs, probes, cargo, etc) to fulfill peacetime duties (that immediately get ditched into the backwaters and all further orders cancelled in the run up to the General War).
You'd think there'd be a variety of experimental ships (something like the various non-standard ships built in the interwar period, ships like the Surcouf or the Nelson, experimental stuff and things built with the lessons from previous conflicts).
Also some of the Y era cruisers are still in frontline service with some navies in that period (Lyrans and Gorn for example) so some of the W era ships might be the national guard/training ships that the Y ships replaced when they were removed from frontline service). Given the Gorn Y destroyer was in frontline service till the Romulans got warp technology and how tight fisted the Gorn assembly was with military spending, I can easily imagine refitted W ships doing national guard duties into the Y130s and 40s if not longer.
I think the various ideas, experiments and variants navies tried out in the middle years would make an interesting supplement. To some extent things like the Federation OCA (enlarged version of the Texas light cruiser) fall into this category, and the fast ships and light dreadnoughts (though they were built in the Y160s).
Also with no massive galaxy spanning conflict you might see more explorer style ships (less weapons, more labs, probes, cargo, etc) to fulfill peacetime duties (that immediately get ditched into the backwaters and all further orders cancelled in the run up to the General War).
tlee33 said:
If you go and look at the SFU timeline http://www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Timeline.pdf, it appears to be the mid-Y150s looks about right based upon events in the original series. Movies, good question, no idea.
If one uses the star trek chronology by Mike Okuda and using the Treaty of Organia as a reference (Y156=2267), and assuming that one year in SFU equals one Earth-year, the plus refits (in SFU, ie the ships as shown in ACTASF) correspond closely to ST the motion picture (2270), and the General War (Y168-Y185) starts about 6 years prior to ST II (2285) and ends three years after ST VI (2293).
IF you agree with the Okuda chronology.
IF you agree with the Okuda chronology.
Okay "Balance of Terror" takes place in Y154 maybe Y155 can't find my Captian Log to be sure. "Errand of Mercy" (The Organians) take place in Y156. And "The Arena" happens in Year 157.
That is pretty much where anything cannon and the SFU diverge. The Enterprise Class is really not compatable with the SFU.
That is pretty much where anything cannon and the SFU diverge. The Enterprise Class is really not compatable with the SFU.
Ben2 said:
Well, one could take the Middle Years Ship Cards from Federation Commander: Briefing #2 (and the relevant "Franz Joseph" ships in Booster #91) and have enough to get the pre-refit era up and running in ACtA:SF. (Aside from the Fed OCA, FCB2 has a number of Ship Cards for other pre-war designs, like the Lyran DNE and BCE, that were specific to the era.)
The remaining warp-refitted ships were essentially demoted to the National Guard/Local Defence forces once the Y-era ships entered service with the various star fleets; the only exceptions being the likes of the Terran light cruiser, that was upgraded from the WCL to the YCL instead. (Other Terran hulls, like the WCA, were more directly supplanted by the Republic-class saucer-and-nacelle YCAs in front-line service.)
By the Y120s, the National Guards were getting refitted Y-era ships (GCAs, GFFs, etc); the star fleets were making the grand switch to the likes of the Constitution-class CA and the Klingon D6. By that era, the bulk of the old Federation (and ISC) planetary ships had long since been sent to the scrapyard, or perhaps turned into the occasional museum ship.
So, in the Middle Years, you would only have the pre-refit modern hulls in front-line service, and only the local defence ships (as seen in SFB Module R8); except of course for the Romulans (who lagged behind the rest of the Octant until the Treaty of Smarba) and ISC (who didn't bother investing in upgrading their Y-era fleet until compelled to after Y160).
(Although, not all of the ships in that module, or in some of the more recent R-modules for that matter, are unusable for the Middle Years. R8 has a handful of oddball ships like the Klingon LD5; while R11 has the Amerigo Vespucci, a National Guard survey cruiser. So there are more "TV era" ships that could be fished out here and there, to be added with those that would already have Ship Cards in Briefing #2.)
tlee33 said:
The "five-year mission" is said to take place between Y154 to Y159; while the incident at Talos IV took place in Y142.
The movies and later TV series are not part of the Star Fleet Universe's source material; the story of the Early Years in the SFU does not line up with ST: Enterprise, while the flow of events post-Y160 is wholly apart from those in the later on-screen Franchise works.
Aside from the odd overlap (due to both drawing from elements of the same source material), the various Franchise timelines and that for the SFU are not intended to be compatible.
Indeed, not everything from the TV show is directly ported into the SFU; for example, the SFU version of the Federation-Gorn first contact has no Metrons involved. They are considered be be additions made to a later tri-video dramatisation, and do not exist as a speces in this universe. The "tri-video dramatisation" escape clause allows for certain things to be somewhat tweaked compared to how they may have been in the film; but also essentially covers the fact that not all of the on-screen material is allowed as part of ADB's peculiar licence anyway. In a sense, the true "origin" for the SFU is not so much the sub-set on on-screen material which the licence allows, so much as it stems from the same "Air Force data tapes" that the Star Fleet Technical Manual originally claimed as its primary source back in 1975.
(To put it another way, ADB were contracted with the Franz Joseph estate before they signed with Paramount directly; and when the latter deal was signed, the only on-screen material that ADB was allowed to use was that which had been adopted into SFB already. But, on the other hand, it hasn't stopped ADB from adding dozens of their own new species and empires to the Star Fleet Universe; and nor has it stopped them from expanding upon the "TV empires" that are part of the deal in different ways to those the Franchise has gone with.)
In terms of what a Y-year represents, there are three schools of thought for how things are handled for the SFU. The "Valkenburg Chronology", used in Federation Commander and Starmada, puts First Contact in the year 2400. The "Amin-Audeh Chronology", mentioned in some sources but not used by any of the games so far, sets that event in 2063. The third strand, used in SFB, Prime Directive and ACtA:SF, says that the information in the data tapes is such that no accurate date can be guessed; so First Contact is simply said to be in Y1.
WickedLance
Mongoose
So ADB can't go past Y225 or just haven't gotten to it yet?
They can do what they like, its their universe to play with - so its a case of they have not developed beyond that.
On top of the core section they have gone earlier in time period and to two other localities (Omega and Magellanic cloud) to expand the game - they ran up to 225 with two generations of X technology loaded on top of the base game system - its just not been developed further yet.
They need to come up with ideas in terms of history, as well as technology to expand beyond 2nd gen Xships without if just being 3rd gen bigger better toys.....what they have done is choose to run sideways, using the game engine for other experiences without seeming hackneyed.
On top of the core section they have gone earlier in time period and to two other localities (Omega and Magellanic cloud) to expand the game - they ran up to 225 with two generations of X technology loaded on top of the base game system - its just not been developed further yet.
They need to come up with ideas in terms of history, as well as technology to expand beyond 2nd gen Xships without if just being 3rd gen bigger better toys.....what they have done is choose to run sideways, using the game engine for other experiences without seeming hackneyed.
They could, but 3X ships would likely eat everybody alive, and it would be another Dreadnought situation, where the advent of a new class with new technology and design ideas renders it's predecessors obsolete overnight, thus doing away with the advantage races like the Federation and Klingons have in terms of numbers, as single 3X ships would be able to eat squadrons of normal or 1X ships for breakfast, and they can't be converted from normal ships like the 1X ships can. Even 1X ships can handle a normal ship a class size higher (CCXs vs DNs, etc)
It would cause problems in SFB fighting 1X or standard ships against 3X, but far less so in ACTA or Starmada depending on what technology was used.
Would 3X ships be bigger? Or would power boxes produce more power, or what? Would 3X tech massively modify the existing rules? Would everyone get it?
It would cause problems in SFB fighting 1X or standard ships against 3X, but far less so in ACTA or Starmada depending on what technology was used.
Would 3X ships be bigger? Or would power boxes produce more power, or what? Would 3X tech massively modify the existing rules? Would everyone get it?
But that should be the case really shouldn't it?
Its a bit like pre WW1 warships trying to fight against a WWII battlegroup including Carriers and Battleships with radar etc?
You have two alternatives really I feel:
1) keep the eras compatable but just up the speed, shields, weapons etc to make later era ships untouchable by their earlier equivalents.
2) Have a whole new fleet list for each Empire which are independant of the earlier era and so can start from scratch.
The whole SFU universe could (should) change radically - in the same way as the world did after the end of WWII - perhaps whole Empires collapse or are subsumed - its a hard thing to get right but it can be done:
IMO BattleTech did this brilliantly with the Michael Stackpole Warrior novels and all the huge amount of related material where the Lyrans and Davions merged, House Liao is shattered and Kurita tetters on the edge.
Equally brave was the Clan invasion
Its a bit like pre WW1 warships trying to fight against a WWII battlegroup including Carriers and Battleships with radar etc?
You have two alternatives really I feel:
1) keep the eras compatable but just up the speed, shields, weapons etc to make later era ships untouchable by their earlier equivalents.
2) Have a whole new fleet list for each Empire which are independant of the earlier era and so can start from scratch.
The whole SFU universe could (should) change radically - in the same way as the world did after the end of WWII - perhaps whole Empires collapse or are subsumed - its a hard thing to get right but it can be done:
IMO BattleTech did this brilliantly with the Michael Stackpole Warrior novels and all the huge amount of related material where the Lyrans and Davions merged, House Liao is shattered and Kurita tetters on the edge.
Equally brave was the Clan invasion
WickedLance said:
I think this question came up at some point over on the ADB BBS; from what I recall, I think the main issue stopping the Alpha Octant from going into the X3-era was that, from their view, it was going too far away from what people might expect to see in a "next generation" era.
Since the TNG/DS9/VOY designs are off the table, ADB would have to try and come up with brand new hull types for the empires involved; and there's no guarantee that there'd be enough people willing to invest in them. (And even before we get to that point, we have to find out what the X2-era ships will look like; so far, the furthest we've gone is into the X1-era, with art for ships like the Klingon DX and the Federation Vincennes-class CX.)
Although, there have been hints that the Omega timeline might end up creeping over the line, so to speak. The currently-published edition stops in Y221, at the end of the Seventh Cycle; with the Eighth, and last known, Cycle to come. Either that last Cycle only lasts for four years, the flow of events gets cut in mid-flight (which would be unfortunate, if things were left hanging like that), or the data covering the Eighth Cycle continues beyond Y225 to whatever year it eventually wraps up at.
(Plus, the R-section for one of the Omega survey gunboats states that it was still in service by Y250, long after the boats had been made obsolete everywhere else. If the "data tapes" go no farther than Y225 for the Eighth Cycle, there would be no basis for that assertion, so...)
Da Boss said:
I think the way the Early Years may be handled (should we see it happen) would be the best indicator. It may be that the X2-era (let alone anything beyond) would essentially need to be treated as its own setting in and of itself; and not intended to be flown alongside the ships of the General War.
That's one of the advantages of alternate settings like Omega; there is less of a need to keep the "TV empires" alive (or the borders static), so a whole lot more scope exists for collective heads to roll.
I do really like Adams work - he makes very pretty ship pictures - however I think there crux of the probem is as you say: They are just the same old ships
I feel you would have to have new ship designs that actually look like new ships rather than an extra phaser bump or slightly longer engine. This could allow new "cool" designs to be made which would appeal to a wider audiance.
If ADB /MGP wanted to go into bold new eras - I think they would need to design a whole new fleet for each Empire (that still existed) - or say 3 -4 different designs per Empire - and I don't see that happenng.
Also apparently any new designs have to be made in 2400 as well (according to ADB's board) so again that massively limits things.
I think MGP could do it given the success of the Klingon D-17 design but I think it is presently highly unlikely.
I feel you would have to have new ship designs that actually look like new ships rather than an extra phaser bump or slightly longer engine. This could allow new "cool" designs to be made which would appeal to a wider audiance.
If ADB /MGP wanted to go into bold new eras - I think they would need to design a whole new fleet for each Empire (that still existed) - or say 3 -4 different designs per Empire - and I don't see that happenng.
Also apparently any new designs have to be made in 2400 as well (according to ADB's board) so again that massively limits things.
I think MGP could do it given the success of the Klingon D-17 design but I think it is presently highly unlikely.
Da Boss said:
Hence the reason why I hope enough people will be willing to invest in the kind of SFU-native empires and settings you'll find in places like Omega; there is a lot of diversity to be had on the tabletop, and plenty of blood on the floor in the local timelines, but only for those who are inspired to delve into them (or, perhaps, are open to the idea of being offered each setting on its own merits).
But then, we still have several years' worth of Main Era Alpha Octant ships to get ported over from FC before any of that would be up for consideration (if it ever is), so.
Svc tried the lets add more power,phasers/heavy weapons, and more shields to create an X2 era once( this was supplement #2).being one of the purchasers of this item i can tell you that it did not go over well.
Svc will eventually create a new X2 when he can. he has several things ahead of it on his to do list but he will get to it. (soon i hope).
Svc will eventually create a new X2 when he can. he has several things ahead of it on his to do list but he will get to it. (soon i hope).
billclo said:
SVC noted in last week's Talkshoe podcast that, for the most part, he is focusing on his own plans for what the X2-era would look like, and is not taking too much account of what is in the various X2 discussion threads.
(I would imagine there would be plenty of room to try and discuss the rules he comes up with, only at the point where he would be willing and ready to go over them.)
