Setting Advice Needing (Navy specific + any other comments)

[rinku]

Well, I'm not convinced that the core rules have much relevance in this situation, and the new High Guard doesn't address the issue of fleet production and support. Prior to TCS, you'd pretty much have drawn the same conclusions about starport capacity from the basic Book 2 and High Guard rules, for the same reason (i.e. omission of restrictions to the contrary).

Keep in mind too, that there is a difference in civilian vs military fleet capacity. TCS deals with tax bases and population available for the military as much as it deals with starport capacity. I have no issue with standard civilian starships being rolled out of a yard on a planet that TCS says the military equivalent can't support - it's being funded and crewed from private (often off-world) sources.

 

[dayriff]

your point of view (I recommended
using Trillion Credit Squadron myself in my first post here), the Mongoo-
se Traveller rules seem to point in a different direction, if any direction
at all, with all starports of a certain type being equal in shipbuilding ca-
pacity, no matter what the population and economy behind it.

I admit that this is far from being plausible, but on the other hand there
are a lot of implausible bits in the rules ...

I downloaded Trillion Credit Squadron last night from drivethrurpg. It was a bit dense; I was hoping I could just flip through to the right table, but things weren't that simple. I also got Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium, which at least had some nice breakdowns of what a ships make up various types of squadrons.

What I am taking from all this is that I can essentially justify whatever I want as far as shipbuilding capacity goes. If I want to say that two class A and one Class B starport can keep up with four Class As and many more Class Bs because of greater population, who can tell me I'm wrong? "Class A" only specifies capability, not volume. It says nothing about how many construction docks are available for use at any given time.

Going back to my original question, how many squadrons do folks think it would be useful to have wandering about the subsector from a narrative outlook? That is, I don't want there to be so many that there's a Navy squadron in every system, but I want a reasonable number for a post-war environment.

By the way, I went back and counted, and the Imperium controls only 29 systems in the subsector/cluster. 29 systems Imperium (8 of which were seized from the Pax; one of which they share control), 8 systems for the Pax (not including the joint-controlled one), and 18 independent systems. (Which include at least two spacefaring worlds with their own Class B starport facilities, but no naval force projection capabilities.)

 

[rust]

What I am taking from all this is that I can essentially justify whatever I want as far as shipbuilding capacity goes.

Yep, this is why I recommended to look at more opinions than just mine.
There are no hard and fast rules for this beyond what Trillion Credit Squa-
dron has to offer, which is not Mongoose Traveller, and so there is a lot
of leeway.

Going back to my original question, how many squadrons do folks think it would be useful to have wandering about the subsector from a narrative outlook?

I would use at least one system defense boat and a flight of fighters plus
a least one courier to call for help in each system, one naval base with
the headquarters and the core of the fleet on standby and at least one
smaller task force on patrol for each of the parties.

The more important the system from a strategic point of view, the more
craft should be available for system defense, and important systems may
well have a cruiser and one or two destroyers present.

 

[AndrewW]

Those higher TL worlds with lower population may also be more automated, requiring less people to do the same job, be it manufacturing or starship construction.

 

[dayriff]

Those higher TL worlds with lower population may also be more automated, requiring less people to do the same job, be it manufacturing or starship construction.

Absolutely, but they're up against worlds with the equivalent technology level (who therefore have the same benefit) and more people. I mean, the Pax have the only population A world in the subsector, and it's tech level A! True it doesn't have any shipyards worth mentioning, but it could produce a whole lot of other military hardware.

Yeesh, the more I look at these guys, the less incredible their resistance is. Sure the 3I has 10,000 worlds and could crush them if it really wanted to, yadda-yadda, but it could take a long time to convince the powers that be to committ sufficient resources to do so.

 

[rinku]

Ultimately, fleet strength is dictated more by the tax base than by the number of shipyards. The rules in TCS regarding budget and maintenance are pretty solid and edition neutral. You'll note they use a 10% annual maintenance figure? That would be because you don't separately track wages and ammunition. Of course, you can tweak the assumed naval tax of Cr500 per person and the government multipliers to suit.

Automation is largely irrelevant to sustainable fleet size - a TL16 robot yard that can churn out a ship a month won't help you pay for it. Rate of production is important for replacing losses and repairs, though even there you have to have the cash to cover it.

I re-read it last night - Mr Miller at his most wargamer-y

 

[AndrewW]

Automation is largely irrelevant to sustainable fleet size - a TL16 robot yard that can churn out a ship a month won't help you pay for it. Rate of production is important for replacing losses and repairs, though even there you have to have the cash to cover it.

No it wont help pay for it, but it can help make up any difference in labor force to produce the ships. There's more then just tax base to consider in paying for it, could be one side has more mineral resources for example.

 

[rinku]

That's true if there is a scarcity of resources, but if both sides have more than enough raw materials to produce more ships than they can support (which is likely when both sides have the resources of multiple solar systems to draw upon), rate of production is a secondary factor in terms of maximum sustainable fleet size - total budget dictates that.

The US Navy could easily produce more ships per year than it currently does - it's not going to run out of steel and has the shipbuilding capacity - but the money available to support the existing fleet puts a brake on expansion.

 

[AndrewW]

That's true if there is a scarcity of resources, but if both sides have more than enough raw materials to produce more ships than they can support (which is likely when both sides have the resources of multiple solar systems to draw upon), rate of production is a secondary factor in terms of maximum sustainable fleet size - total budget dictates that.

Natural resources point to more then just the resource itself though could be some valuable ones that could be exported increasing the wealth and money available to fund shipbuilding.