Sector and Subsector-wide Merchant Lines

[Sigtrygg]

LARGE LINES
The large lines, the ones which can reach over great distances, are the megacorporations and the sector-wide lines.
Megacorporation - long distance - support bases - offices -
Sectorwide Line - major worlds within a sector - dominate trade within the sector

SMALL LINES
The small lines are the feeders to the large lines. They handle smaller, less profitable markets, but provide vital services.
Sub-sectorwide Line - major worlds within a subsector - off the main trade lanes - lucrative markets <check trade codes?>
Interface Line - across the borders <including between the other lines> -
Fledgling Line - a few ships working in partnership or corporation - 9/10 fail -
Free Trader - a single ship - no schedule

 

[Condottiere]

I think it's far more complex.

The megacorporations have the advantage of mass, but likely can't react quickly.

Spacelines don't need permission to fly routes between starports.

And, you can do point to point.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I think it's far more complex.

The megacorporations have the advantage of mass, but likely can't react quickly.

Spacelines don't need permission to fly routes between starports.

And, you can do point to point.

I am starting to think that who dominates which types of Trade Routes will be governed by how big the trade route is. The largest (by volume or by profits, BTN 11+) Trade Routes will be dominated by the megacorps across the Charted Space. The Sector-wide Lines will also get part of this pie within their sectors, but vastly less than the megacorps. Say 80/19/1, with that final 1% being all other traders below the level of Sector Line. The further down the list you get, the smaller the dominant company will be. Megacorp. Sector Line. Subsector Line. Interface Line. Fledgling Line. Free Traders.

 

[Condottiere]

I suspect that megacorporations have schedules created a decade ago.

They also probably have regional subsidiaries, to plug the gaps.

The one percenters would include non scheduled flights, not necessarily charters, but ad hoc flights that take advantage of a developing situation, or opportunity.

 

[phavoc]

I think the big boys won't go into the smaller markets (sectors, sub-sectors, etc) without a clear basis for making a profit. These people will be fixated on revenue, so until that area gets to be X size, it's just not on their radar. Megacorps are focused on bottom-lines (for the most part), and everything will be formulaic to them.

The mid-sized players will probably ebb and flow more than anything else. These guys are not big enough to take on a megacorp, but they are bigger than the smaller fish they dominate. They will be more in-tune with local markets so they'll be more flexible than a megacorp. Remember how Terrans beat the Vilani - even though Terra could have been crushed at any time had Vilani so chosen to do so, they were a fragmented empire ruled by local fiat. They couldn't / didn't bring their greater size to bear on the upstart Terrans. Same rules go for business.

The smallest guys will eke out a living based on crumbs that no one else wants to bother with, or else they'll see the opportunities first and be even faster than the mid-sized guys. They'll keep that going until bigger fish come in to take it away from them.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I think the big boys won't go into the smaller markets (sectors, sub-sectors, etc) without a clear basis for making a profit. These people will be fixated on revenue, so until that area gets to be X size, it's just not on their radar. Megacorps are focused on bottom-lines (for the most part), and everything will be formulaic to them.

The mid-sized players will probably ebb and flow more than anything else. These guys are not big enough to take on a megacorp, but they are bigger than the smaller fish they dominate. They will be more in-tune with local markets so they'll be more flexible than a megacorp. Remember how Terrans beat the Vilani - even though Terra could have been crushed at any time had Vilani so chosen to do so, they were a fragmented empire ruled by local fiat. They couldn't / didn't bring their greater size to bear on the upstart Terrans. Same rules go for business.

The smallest guys will eke out a living based on crumbs that no one else wants to bother with, or else they'll see the opportunities first and be even faster than the mid-sized guys. They'll keep that going until bigger fish come in to take it away from them.

The trick is how to translate that onto the tools We have available in Traveller such as WTNs and BTNs and whatever other stuff there might be.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

I think the big boys won't go into the smaller markets (sectors, sub-sectors, etc) without a clear basis for making a profit. These people will be fixated on revenue, so until that area gets to be X size, it's just not on their radar. Megacorps are focused on bottom-lines (for the most part), and everything will be formulaic to them.

When a Sector/subsector grows a market big enough to attract their interest they will begin buying local lines, merge them together and work to squeeze out the lines they don't buy. They may even be part owners of those lines from early days to make the take over easier when it comes. Those companies will probably be started buying ships from the megacorps selling off old but viable units.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I love discussions like these! Now we just hope the writers read some of the discussions like this one for future supplements.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The Mongoose Traveller forum is getting a lot more traffic than CotI these days.

 

[Condottiere]

Chances are that the megacorporations have investments in smaller spacelines, if only to keep an eye on them.

If they feel the need to have a greater control over them, they could buy them out.

 

[Sageryne]

Point-to-point flights have become all the rage with modern airlines, but before that, it was hub-and-spoke.

I think that you would have feeder lines, likely no more than one or two jump-2 from a local hub, from there, you move on to a bigger sub-sector hub (likely one or two per sub-sector). They would lead to major sector hubs.

Unless you chartered a vessel to take you somewhere directly, I think you (or your cargo) would travel by feeder line to the local hub, then a local line to the sub-sector hub, then the interface line to the sector hub, and finally, a mega-corporate line between sectors.

I think people and cargo would transfer to progressively bigger ship as you got on more and more developed trade routes.

However, unlike aircraft, I think people would understand and expect that it might be a week or two until a ship was going the direct you wanted to go.

If you think back to the age-of-sail, depending on where you were, and where you wanted to go, there might only be one ship per week going from A-to-D. It was easy to catch a ship from Portsmouth to New York. But if you wanted to go from Inverness, Scotland to Savannah, Georgia, you might have to sail from Inverness to Southhampton, then Southhampton to New York, and then New York to Savannah.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Point-to-point flights have become all the rage with modern airlines, but before that, it was hub-and-spoke.

I think that you would have feeder lines, likely no more than one or two jump-2 from a local hub, from there, you move on to a bigger sub-sector hub (likely one or two per sub-sector). They would lead to major sector hubs.

Unless you chartered a vessel to take you somewhere directly, I think you (or your cargo) would travel by feeder line to the local hub, then a local line to the sub-sector hub, then the interface line to the sector hub, and finally, a mega-corporate line between sectors.

I think people and cargo would transfer to progressively bigger ship as you got on more and more developed trade routes.

However, unlike aircraft, I think people would understand and expect that it might be a week or two until a ship was going the direct you wanted to go.

If you think back to the age-of-sail, depending on where you were, and where you wanted to go, there might only be one ship per week going from A-to-D. It was easy to catch a ship from Portsmouth to New York. But if you wanted to go from Inverness, Scotland to Savannah, Georgia, you might have to sail from Inverness to Southhampton, then Southhampton to New York, and then New York to Savannah.

Too expensive in both time and money. To go one J-1 system away, you may have to pay for 2 Jump-2 tickets. That changes the price from 13,000Cr round-trip to 40,000Cr. It also changes the time involved from 3 weeks (2 weeks in jump, 1 week on planet) to 7 weeks. (4 weeks in jump. 2 weeks in the hub looking for and buying tickets for the next leg. 1 week at your destination.)

What will really determine it is the trade volume that passes back and forth between individual planets within 6 hexes of each other. GURPS Far Trader did a decent job of showing this trade, but it is a bit cumbersome to use over a whole subsector.

 

[boggo2300]

Passenger travel across the Atlantic, and the need for speed is what gave us the Blue Riband and the speed race for liners, I can see that sort of thing being the case with larger passenger lines in Traveller as well, A race to J-6 Passenger liners to get you from important system A to important System B with the slower liners belonging to say sector lines for getting from Important System B to Not as Important System C, and subsector lines with their slower again liners for taking passengers from Not as Important System C to Slightly Important System D, then the Tramps freighters and fledgling lines with their slow ass Far and Free Traders taking the passengers from Slightly Important System D to everywhere else, ie how shipping worked in the 18th and 19th century...

 

[Terry Mixon]

Passenger travel across the Atlantic, and the need for speed is what gave us the Blue Riband and the speed race for liners, I can see that sort of thing being the case with larger passenger lines in Traveller as well, A race to J-6 Passenger liners to get you from important system A to important System B with the slower liners belonging to say sector lines for getting from Important System B to Not as Important System C, and subsector lines with their slower again liners for taking passengers from Not as Important System C to Slightly Important System D, then the Tramps freighters and fledgling lines with their slow ass Far and Free Traders taking the passengers from Slightly Important System D to everywhere else, ie how shipping worked in the 18th and 19th century...

The ticket price for J6 lines justify the cost of the ship and then some.

 

[rinku]

J-6 lines are going to be much more equivalent to Concorde vs a regular airliner, than a fast steamer vs a slower one.

Hugely expensive vessels that sacrifice passenger capacity for performance.

 

[MasterGwydion]

J-6 lines are going to be much more equivalent to Concorde vs a regular airliner, than a fast steamer vs a slower one.

Hugely expensive vessels that sacrifice passenger capacity for performance.

Not a good analogy since regular airliners don't have to stop every hour and refuel. J-1 ships versus the J-6 ship will. Also, it is not just a difference of a few hours one way or the other. It is a difference of 5 weeks each way. That is over a month of travel versus a week of travel.

 

[Condottiere]

With starports everywhere, point to point is quite feasible.

However, if operating costs are cheaper with a hub and spoke model, you trade time for cost.

 

[MasterGwydion]

With starports everywhere, point to point is quite feasible.

However, if operating costs are cheaper with a hub and spoke model, you trade time for cost.

Operating costs are higher at the bigger starports. Higher berthing fees. Class A and B you pay 5 times as much for fuel as well. So, the hub and spoke model clearly doesn't work in Charted Space. lol

 

[Condottiere]

I'm working on it.

Mind you, most on the details on the infrastructure are going to be made up, within the bounds of what passes as plausible.

 

[boggo2300]

J-6 lines are going to be much more equivalent to Concorde vs a regular airliner, than a fast steamer vs a slower one.

Hugely expensive vessels that sacrifice passenger capacity for performance.

I don't agree with that, in 1938 Queen Mary crossed the North Atlantic at an AVERAGE speed of 30.99 knots, while average speed for smaller passenger/cargo ships was about 9 knots, so maybe not J-1 to J-6, but definitely J-1 to J-4 disparity