Secrets of Tragic Europe - Sabbak's report

[Sabbak]

I've read SoTE the last Hawkmoon supplement from A to Z and here's my report.

Overall mark: 7,5/10
(text 8/10, artwork+maps 2/10... but I put emphasis on the text not the illus.)

POSITIVE points:

* The general plot is quite interesting. A bit linear, okay, but rather good, and all the 9 scenarios are worth to play.

* The multiverse aspect of the game is particularly put in front of the scene and that's a good thing. The Hawkmoon saga is also very well taken into account.

* The adventures are full of suspence and "fast, fun and furious" situations! It won't be a romantic promenade for the players!

* I'm not very fluent in english but what've read is quite fun. Humour is there!


NEGATIVE points:

- The interior artwork... what a pity!
The cover is excellent, but the interior artwork is ranging from "not so bad" (p. 4, 12, 19, 70, 89) to "ugly and/or ridiculous and/or with mistakes of proportions" (p. 5, 26, 51, 61, 80, 121, 126 -the most ridiculous!-) a shame in 2008!
But more important is the fact that the illustrations are many times not pertinent. Many other situations described in the text should have been illustrated (an Hybrasil view or the battle of Lambent Flame for example).

- The lack of usable and nice maps.
Second BIG shame! The maps are ridiculous... I'll be forced to redraw quite all the maps in order to avoid upset comments from my players... and I understand them!
The maps are either incomplete (Paris p. 35), nice but unusable (Soryandum p.78), made with word by my young nephew 8 yrs old (Castle of Salt p. 109, 114, Londra tunnels p. 124), or simpliy lacking (many, many situations like Eire, Hybrasil, Ltava, etc...).
For me it IS a big problem especially when you compare Mongoose products with other (spanish or french) RpG. The level of the artwork is soooo poor in Mongoose products that it will soon prevent me from buying their products... It's simply not enthousiastic!

- Near the end, sometimes, the situations are a bit... well... let's say "very quickly described". As if the author was put under pressure to finish the work. It's just a general subjective impression of "of unfinished work", more vivace in the end of the book. The GM will have some work to flesh this out correctly.

- Aren't the stats for some opponents/monsters lacking? There is NOTHING (except some monsters) for pages 70-98...

Conclusion:
* Very good ideas/situations, generally well writen.
* good use of the multiverse and the events in the Hawkmoon saga.
- sometimes a bit linear, like a multiverse dungeon...
- Very poor artwork/maps.
- Some work for the GM (if a wants to make this campain really unforgetable for his players).

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Did you also notice the absence of maps for the Salthill, the town of Ltava, or for the 'Blue Gardenia'? All are detailed and have keyed locations... but no actual maps.

However, wait until you see the "maps" in 'Castle Brass' - the DTP operator failed to replace the placeholder images used in layout with the high-resolution print versions. You sometimes actually have to squint to work out what they really mean. Also some of the full-page maps of Castle Brass (besides being very heavily pixelated) are so inappropriately large that they shunt the room descriptions clear off the page.

Those festering carbuncles apart, I quite liked 'Castle Brass' - not as much as 'L'Kamarg', but the actual written text is not bad. Shame about the maps.

 

[Sabbak]

Did you also notice the absence of maps for the Salthill, the town of Ltava, or for the 'Blue Gardenia'? All are detailed and have keyed locations... but no actual maps.

Yes, you are right! I've noticed that but I forgot to point this out...
Pfff... is it really a professional and proof read work?
:?

However, wait until you see the "maps" in 'Castle Brass' - the DTP operator failed to replace the placeholder images used in layout with the high-resolution print versions. You sometimes actually have to squint to work out what they really mean. Also some of the full-page maps of Castle Brass (besides being very heavily pixelated) are so inappropriately large that they shunt the room descriptions clear off the page.

AAAAARGHLL!
Okay, I've made my decision: I wont buy any more books IF the interior artwork/maps aren't at LEAST "sufficient".
Hell, we are in 2008 not in 1978 any more!
And if you are not confortable with computer-program for drawing maps, you can always use the good old ink and paper method! Even ME I'm capable of THAT!

Those festering carbuncles apart, I quite liked 'Castle Brass' - not as much as 'L'Kamarg', but the actual written text is not bad. Shame about the maps.

Hmmm... it is disapointing to read that a NEW work is not reaching the same level as OLD work...

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Sabbak said:

Hmmm... it is disapointing to read that a NEW work is not reaching the same level as OLD work...

They are different products, 'La Kamarg' being very much of its time, is more linear"guidebook" in its following of chronological events, with many side adventures. While 'Castle Brass' is certainly much more "free form".

Between the two there is a lot of information, and I'd use a mixture personally as each has its strength (as well as weaknesses). Neither is the last word on the subject, but together they are certainly greater than either individually.

As regards presentation, 'La Kamarg''s maps (though hand-drawn) are still stratospherically better, and the book on the whole is far easier on the eye. It is a shame that 'Castle Brass' has drastic map problems - otherwise I'd be kinder in my opinion of it.

 

[Loz]

I'd also add that Castle Brass isn't aiming to update La Kamarg. These are separate books for separate games, written by different people in different languages. I read a little French, but nowhere near enough to have been able to really take anything in La Kamarg and attempt to do anything with it. I also have my own ideas based on my familiarity with the Hawkmoon saga which are going to be different to those of La Kamarg's authors.

 

[tarkhan bey]

It seems that Hawkmoon books are like buses, you wait for ages for one to come along and then two arrive together.
Just like that homeward bound bus on a wet and windy night they are both very welcome and I am glad they are here.
Firstly, SoTE.
What can I say? I think that this is an excellent campaign full of exciting concepts and ideas. I really liked the twist on the old Universal /Hammer horror pictures idea in the Lady in the Chapel. My only complaints would be that the take on Eire invalidates the background for one of my player characters. He is a minstrel from "the City of Maidens in the land of Ailek" which probably cannot exist according to this background. I wish this book had come out a little sooner.
Also, Maps. These always seem to be a contentious issue but I agree that they run the gamut from from evocative and quite good to pure bloody awful.
9 out of 10 for me because of the maps.
Castle Brass, written text is excellent. Some hidden gems of humour(see Condaw moments :lol: ).Maps...meeeh!
THe Tainted Brass campaign idea is really good and gives me an opportunity to introduce my homebrewed association of spies in the employ of Bowgentle known as "Sentinelle".
Still no stats for Von Villach though. :?
9 out of 10 also.

Hawkmoon team, please keep up the good work.
.

 

[Sabbak]

I'd also add that Castle Brass isn't aiming to update La Kamarg. These are separate books for separate games

Yes, and that is a good thing.
Now I would be very pleased to see products based on Amarekh or Asiacommunista for Hawkmoon.

But PLEASE, with DECENT artwork and maps. If you need some help, give me a call, I can find you many MANY people working for (almost) free and with real drawing and/or maping talents...

This is said.

 

[Loz]

Oh, I have ideas for Asiacommunista...

Point noted on the maps. Please believe me when I say we take the issue seriously. We're working on how to rectify matters.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Constructive criticism is always the best route....

Maps are without doubt the most serious quality issue Mongoose has, and it's a cancerous problem - a company like Mongoose should really have a professional cartographer working full-time.

While sales of individual products might not be unduly depressed, the rot sets in with customers' potential purchases of other lines - or rather that they are put off doing so.

Even within my narrow geographical region I know several people that typically play other games, and who were initially interested in 'Traveller' (actually they were more interested in a 'SpaceQuest'), but when they heard about the whole deckplan disaster, they gave up on the idea. I think as a group they are going to try 4th ed. D&D instead....

Once a company's product gets a reputation as being "difficult to use" (even if unjustly so), it's a nasty spiral.

 

[Sabbak]

Oh, I have ideas for Asiacommunista...

Point noted on the maps. Please believe me when I say we take the issue seriously. We're working on how to rectify matters.

This is two good things to read!
Thanks Loz!

 

[soltakss]

I've just skipped through both Secrets of Tragic Europe and Castle Brass and I don't see the problem with the maps. They are reasconable, not particularly detailed but good enough to use. Normally I am very critical of poor quality maps but I honestly don't think these are that bad.

I don't see the need for maps of Tragic Europe really as it spoils the guessing gamewhere you match the locations in Moorcock's works with real life places.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

A quick skip-through might not have picked up these snafus, such as the keys to the castle maps at the back of 'Castle Brass' (particularly page 108)... so pixelated that some of the legends are frankly puzzling.

Also on reading through you might notice that several keyed and detailed maps are not actually in the finished books-although it seems that they were at some design stage.

I have no problems with the text, but I really feel these map quality matters should not be happening today (even in a game book) - they should be professionally done in supplements that cost as much as these do.

Finally, although many might be familiar with European geography, other readers might not be. Without decent maps errors can sneak in and lead to stinkers such as Kanbery being placed up in Norfolk (rather than at Canterbury in Kent). Although there are small mercies such as Kroiden in Mongoose 'Hawkmoon' at least not being in Bristol....

 

[Sabbak]

I have no problems with the text, but I really feel these map quality matters should not be happening today (even in a game book) - they should be professionally done in supplements that cost as much as these do.

As you can guess, I'm 100% back this!