Scout re-direct

[Target]

The point is that its not the scout rule that needs looking at but a couple of particular scouts.

Maybe it's the bigger scouts that need looked at?
Should they be able to do more than one thing, more sensors and stuff.
Scout 1- only one roll & one ship gets the benefit
Scout 2- two rolls or +1 to the roll, two ships gets the benefit
Better the Scout rating, more range, easier to lock on & so on.

 

[Locutus9956]

No, Id rather not go down the route of making things more complex personally

 

[Triggy]

Agreed, a Scout had better be damned ineffective and/or damned easy to kill if it's only going to be Patrol PL. Skirmish and Raid probably make the best sense for most Scouts.

 

[greenboy]

I'd be happy with the reroll only applying to one squadron with the increase in squadron size this would make little change in small battles but would stop it being too ott in big ones

 

[emperorpenguin]

Agreed, a Scout had better be damned ineffective and/or damned easy to kill if it's only going to be Patrol PL. Skirmish and Raid probably make the best sense for most Scouts.

yup, scouts are force multipliers so having them at patrol is just too easy. Corvans being a good example


@greenboy I did a double take, I saw your avatar and thought I'd posted but couldn't remember doing so!

 

[CZuschlag]

EP --- Precisely! Multipliers is the key phrase!

Especially given that scout currently does not need line of sight (hide behind dust clouds) and most of them have decent stealth, especially at range 24-20 (only patrol exception here is the Jashakar -- the Jashakar that makes its Scouting check for Bolters usually has a huge survivability issue).

The Corvan, Vaarl, (partly also the Vaarka, because of its +1 CQ and Stealth 5+), and Drakh Scout are all way too burly for Patrol. Honorable mentions for bad news goes to the Abbai Shayarie and Dilgar Jashakar, but not so much --- Abbai on their own are largely twin-linked anyways, and it's not like the Shayarie can actually hurt anything, and the Jashakar is eminently killable/crippable by anything with a Beam.

 

[polemarch]

What's wrong with having patrol level scouts especially if you are playing with year restrictions.

In earlier years you have less and they are more vulnerable, in later years they get all the latest technology which seems reasonable to me. Why wouldn't you invest your money in ships which improve the performance of your more expensive assets.

The way I see it you used to have artilery spotters with a map and a wire phone, they developed to have radios and a decent map coordinate system and now we have special foreces running around with laser guidance systems.

 

[Locutus9956]

You cant use the ISD argument to claim everything is balanced. How many people honestly play with ISD's at all anyway? How many tournaments have EVER used them or intend to? I personally have no problem with patrol level scouts but some are possibly a little TOO good (the Corvan isnt actually that bad imho it just SEEMS bad when you can combine it with so many Battle lasers, the Vaarl also I dont think is that bad when used as part of a Vree fleet but when you use it in a league or ISA fleet and bring Brakkiri lasers of Neturon lasers into the equasion again it gets a tad on the 'sick and wrong side')

But really I think this is a symptom of a much larger issue. I just dont think the PL system works any more, there are too many ships and too much variety in them to classify things in 6 massive grey areas. Points are not a magic solution but it allows you to fine tune the value of a unit much more easily.

 

[Triggy]

I personally have no problem with patrol level scouts but some are possibly a little TOO good (the Corvan isnt actually that bad imho it just SEEMS bad when you can combine it with so many Battle lasers, the Vaarl also I dont think is that bad when used as part of a Vree fleet but when you use it in a league or ISA fleet and bring Brakkiri lasers of Neturon lasers into the equasion again it gets a tad on the 'sick and wrong side')

But it is precisely this context where we find the scouts and so in these two instances the scouts are too good for their PL. The Vaarl in particular with the +1CQ modifier...

As mentioned the Jashakar and Shyarie are examples of Patrol PL scouts that seem fine due to their respective limitations. Most other scouts are actually a good choice for a fleet but you can't afford to take too many and that is ideally where you find the balance for ships.

 

[Target]

Maybe listing Scout more like a weapon giving it a range & AD.
Bigger scouts would better range & maybe be able to split dice as well. Could work if only gave 1 ship one reroll eg a Corvan might be like this
Sensor Array 18" 1AD Scout
a Leshath might be
Sensor Array 30" 2AD Scout
Some scouts might be real close range but have more dice & so on.
Have listed in the weapon lineup, but still roll if your ship gets crippled to se if it gets destroyed.

 

[Da Boss]

How about having a "rare" trait: Unique trait has been mentioned already.

2 per fleet or similar ? Would this help or :?: hinder

have fun

 

[Ripple]

All good comments above.

One thing was mentioned that is just not true though. There is no lessening of efficiency for buying down under Arm. In almost all cases you gain by buying down as far as you can with at least one point and buying down at least two levels with the rest. It could be argued that the Minbari/Vorlons do not want to do this, but even there if the scenario gets to battle or above they want to. Buying up is where there is a real efficiency issue and you have to seriously think about what to buy.

Second issue that folks mention is that you should have no trouble killing such small ships. The problem here is that they will be out of range of many ship (24 inch range is pretty good, many raid level combatants are limited to 20 inches or less, sometimes much less.) They will be behind cover as they don't need line of sight. And the ones that really scare folks have stealth, meaning a good portion of the ships that shoot at them will simply fail. Given it takes a Raid or higher level gun to insta kill these little ships how many do you want to shoot at a Vaarl while the enemy shoots at you?

Ripple