Scout re-direct
- Thread starter JayRaider
- Start date
prelude_to_war
Mongoose
All ships are allowed to reroll, assuming normal reroll rules regarding beams, twin-linked, etc.
I think we all assumed that it was only one weapon system on one ship at first and as soon as Matt clarified that it was one weapon PER ship scouts became a LOT more valuable. Assuming this ability remains in second edition I hope they clear up the wording since this question has come up again and again.
prelude_to_war
Mongoose
Yeah the wording there is dodgy to say the least.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Scouts are usually fairly fragile (when you can beat stealth). Shooting scouts is a indeed a good remedy for this.
We're in the midst of a campaign, my Drakh scout (GEG 1 and stealth 4+) are usually pretty survivable and the lowest has CQ4. So, if I'm reading this right, my scout makes it's roll on a, say, Whitestar, and my Light Raiders in range can ALL reroll there first shot of the beams? Sweet.
Being able to reroll your beam weapon while doing another SA is huge. Can see how it's a little weak with one ship especially since it may not be a Primus but every ship in the fleet is way overpowered maybe it neds to limited to 3 ships or something along those lines. Imagine a Sulust/Corvan or worse Sag/Oracle fleet loaded with Flash. Bigger games just mean more Sags & a few more Oracles. The carnage would be spectacular. Sags firing in multiple directions getting rerolls on more than 1 ship, even rerolling on 1 ship while being able to fire on another at the same time is pretty awesome.
Even better is multiple scouts targeting the same ship. rerolls on 2 weapon systems! this gets even more effective when you have mulitple scouts ranging in for squadroned ships. This can make for a very effective first turn of firing.
That said, you need to take a least 2 scouts to have any chance of them being effective. Singles or operating independently makes it very difficult to get the benefits of concentrating your fire.
It also makes it very useful for those short range multi arc ships which can all power to engines into the thick of it and blast away in all arcs without having to concentrate on a single target.
That said, you need to take a least 2 scouts to have any chance of them being effective. Singles or operating independently makes it very difficult to get the benefits of concentrating your fire.
It also makes it very useful for those short range multi arc ships which can all power to engines into the thick of it and blast away in all arcs without having to concentrate on a single target.
Just wanted to say, two out fourteen rolls is just bad rolling, or bad placement if being out of range was the issue. I have often thought scout should have been a trait with a set number (ie scout at 4+) insead of a CQ check. This would allow the small scouts to have more difficult numbers to even out against a Raid level scouts smaller number of rolls per dedicated fleet point.
It can be argued that the Delphi and Leshath have other advantages (and even the Oracles at skirmish) over the small Vaarl/Corvan scouts, but the number of rolls at their primary function I think make the smaller scouts more powerful. As a bonus they act as superb initiative sinks which the large ships just can't compete with.
Long range races also get much more out of scout than the short range races as it is much easier to get multiple ships to take advantage of the successful rolls. Having to cluster within eight to twelve of a single ship is much more difficult that be within 30 facing roughly that way.
Ripple
It can be argued that the Delphi and Leshath have other advantages (and even the Oracles at skirmish) over the small Vaarl/Corvan scouts, but the number of rolls at their primary function I think make the smaller scouts more powerful. As a bonus they act as superb initiative sinks which the large ships just can't compete with.
Long range races also get much more out of scout than the short range races as it is much easier to get multiple ships to take advantage of the successful rolls. Having to cluster within eight to twelve of a single ship is much more difficult that be within 30 facing roughly that way.
Ripple
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Using it on one ship may or may not work but thats not the rule. Its been officially clarified on numerous occasions now. It works for ALL ships.
And it may SOUND scary in big games but then again in big games you should have plenty of firepower to blow a puny little scout or two into the next galaxy with lots left over
. And in very large games your opponent will probably have to buy down at reduced cost efficiency to get those scouts too.
Lastly, and Im not 100% sure of this but still... I THINK in 2nd ed theres going to some tweaking of scouts (increased range for one thing I believe) and hopefully a more clearly worded rule for redirects (exactly what benefits it and what the effect of destroying the scout is on actions already performed that turn etc).
And it may SOUND scary in big games but then again in big games you should have plenty of firepower to blow a puny little scout or two into the next galaxy with lots left over
. And in very large games your opponent will probably have to buy down at reduced cost efficiency to get those scouts too.Lastly, and Im not 100% sure of this but still... I THINK in 2nd ed theres going to some tweaking of scouts (increased range for one thing I believe) and hopefully a more clearly worded rule for redirects (exactly what benefits it and what the effect of destroying the scout is on actions already performed that turn etc).
Its the patrol level scouts that make it a real issue as Ripple mentioned IMO, especially fantastic ones like the Corvan which has all-round firepower or the Vaarl which has Stealth 5 and SM at half speed.
I don't have a problem with things like the Delphi at all (Raid level scout? Knock yourself out mate - I'll take another Sulust ) although it really does depend on what PL you are playing at.
Saying that, usually the scout isn't that great a combat ship and is fairly frail as Greg mentioned (some of them don't even have Stealth!) so you should get something of value for giving up a "combat" choice. Again this could be one argument for imposing some sort of ship rarity trait I mean the fluff on the Vaarl/Vaarka says something about the Vree rarely committing more than 1 of these models to any engagement...I hardly field any other Vree ships!
(Aside:
My typical 5pt Vree fleet would be something like:
Xaak (Battle) - 2 points
Xixx (Skirmish), Vaarl (Patrol), Vaarl (Patrol) - 1 Point
Xixx (Skirmish), Vaarl (Patrol), Vaarl (Patrol) - 1 Point
Xixx (Skirmish), Xixx (Skirmish) - 1 Point
Although I may replace a couple of Vaarls with Tymm fighters depending on opponent and if the scenario allows JPBs (only joking on JPBs)...
I don't have a problem with things like the Delphi at all (Raid level scout? Knock yourself out mate - I'll take another Sulust
) although it really does depend on what PL you are playing at.Saying that, usually the scout isn't that great a combat ship and is fairly frail as Greg mentioned (some of them don't even have Stealth!) so you should get something of value for giving up a "combat" choice. Again this could be one argument for imposing some sort of ship rarity trait I mean the fluff on the Vaarl/Vaarka says something about the Vree rarely committing more than 1 of these models to any engagement...I hardly field any other Vree ships!
(Aside:
My typical 5pt Vree fleet would be something like:
Xaak (Battle) - 2 points
Xixx (Skirmish), Vaarl (Patrol), Vaarl (Patrol) - 1 Point
Xixx (Skirmish), Vaarl (Patrol), Vaarl (Patrol) - 1 Point
Xixx (Skirmish), Xixx (Skirmish) - 1 Point
Although I may replace a couple of Vaarls with Tymm fighters depending on opponent and if the scenario allows JPBs (only joking on JPBs
)...Yep.
Scout in itself is a very good roll, and even in huge battles doesnt get too much out of hand.
2 Delphis only have a 5 out of 9 chance every turn to make a single roll (one of those 5 being them both managing it).
But throw in Patrol lvl scouts with Stealth 5! and SM and to top it off +1 on CQ, you end up with very hard to kill stuff, dirt cheap and redirecting on a 4+....
Duhhh rant over.
Meh its just that most scouts are really cool, especially on the enemy fleet. But some seem to go crazy with em ^^.
Scout in itself is a very good roll, and even in huge battles doesnt get too much out of hand.
2 Delphis only have a 5 out of 9 chance every turn to make a single roll (one of those 5 being them both managing it).
But throw in Patrol lvl scouts with Stealth 5! and SM and to top it off +1 on CQ, you end up with very hard to kill stuff, dirt cheap and redirecting on a 4+....
Duhhh rant over.
Meh its just that most scouts are really cool, especially on the enemy fleet. But some seem to go crazy with em ^^.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
The point is that its not the scout rule that needs looking at but a couple of particular scouts.
