Scout Functions - When are they used ?

[Keeper Nilbog]

Ok, liking the current version of the scout rules, but confused as to how/when they come into play. Reading the update, they are now part of the 'attack phase' (shooting phase or whatever), so would/should be declared as if an attack. If this is right, it woud imply 2 things to me. first, the functions used who need to be 'targeted' (assigned to 'target' ships), which makes some sense, but means that the enemy scout that will active next knows exactly what your doing and just counters it (you would/could also have had issues countering any Jamming when your scout activated - as none had been assigned yet to counter) More importantly, if you lose initiative, then there is nothing you can do against the first activating enemy ship (unless they activate a scout first). Hello D5WD, active first, throw 6 drones, add itself to a drone cluster and remove 2 AD of defensive Phaser from the target - with no return counters.

Doesn't seem, or feel, right. So, am i missing something ?

The current house rules my friend and I are using is as follows, and actually combines bits of the old rules.

Either during or after the movement section of the turn (we tend to declare scout function operations as if they were special actions - i know that is not the case), but BEFORE firing, a number of counters equal to the availible fleet scouting channels are taken by each side. These counter represent the various function (Jamming/Drone Control/ETC), and by doing so 'lock' which functions are availible for that turn. These counters are 'blind' to the enemy - they know you have counters, not want they are - so some mystery remains. These counters are then used during the turn, as appropriate, by the fleet (say a ship wishes to counter a Plasma Torp fired at it, if one of the counters availible is a Jamming counter, it can be assigned to the torp). When counters are declared, the enemy, if they have counter-jamming counters, can burn one to stop this effect. Both fleets lose the appropriate counter, reducing the pool availible for later in the turn. With this system, it is possible to assign too much to a particular function (usually counter-jamming) and for channels to 'go to waste' as it were.

This system might sound complex, but it is actually quite quick when in use (easier than defensive fire )

 

[Greg Smith]

Ok, liking the current version of the scout rules, but confused as to how/when they come into play. Reading the update, they are now part of the 'attack phase' (shooting phase or whatever), so would/should be declared as if an attack.

This is correct.

If this is right, it woud imply 2 things to me. first, the functions used who need to be 'targeted' (assigned to 'target' ships), which makes some sense, but means that the enemy scout that will active next knows exactly what your doing and just counters it

That is likely, however we found that you find other things for our scout to do as the game progresses.

More importantly, if you lose initiative, then there is nothing you can do against the first activating enemy ship (unless they activate a scout first).

Initiative is important. Again as the game progresses, shooting may become more important than scouting. It becomes a tactical decision.

Hello D5WD, active first, throw 6 drones, add itself to a drone cluster and remove 2 AD of defensive Phaser from the target - with no return counters.

The D5WD with combined drones and scouting is a fearsome ship. Although activating first means it can't gain the benefit of Drone Control. It is most fearsome when it selects a target that has already been attacked by three lots of drones with defences almost exhausted.

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

Question - why not benefit from Drone control. The function 'adds' a ship to the 3 ship limit, it doesn't say that you have to be the last ship that fires in that group.

Still feel that the current 'use as an attack' function limits scouts, especially if you don't have initiative (hello Gorn and the Orion's might as well go home - which they should with fighting at fleet level, stupid Orion), as it becomes more of a you can't do that function rather than an environmental effect.

Too be fair, me play with mostly plasma races, so the drone issue isn't a major issue - counter-jamming is as i tend to find that with the attack phase rules, i often have to either declare what i'm upto (and get countered when his scout actives next) or found i'm not using the channels as the scout acties late in the turn). Probably i haven't got the meta game worked out yet, other than YOU NEED A SCOUT if people are using them in games.

 

[Greg Smith]

Question - why not benefit from Drone control. The function 'adds' a ship to the 3 ship limit, it doesn't say that you have to be the last ship that fires in that group.

The rules say it can attack attack a ship that has been attacked 3 times by drones. It doesn't actually say it increases the limit.

 

[McKinstry]

Question - why not benefit from Drone control. The function 'adds' a ship to the 3 ship limit, it doesn't say that you have to be the last ship that fires in that group.

The rules say it can attack attack a ship that has been attacked 3 times by drones. It doesn't actually say it increases the limit.

That's the way we read it as well. It makes the D5WD a 'hold it until the end' ship which can create problems/challenges of its' own as the othert fellow has good reason to blast the D5WD.

 

[Keeper Nilbog]

Ok, seems fair.

Think i'm going to have to rethink the scout rules 'as written', as thier meta game is completely different to how i had understood them.

Makes the Sparrowhawk-C evil though expensive, as it's a warship with scout functions, so can function as either when required. Most scouts can't do this (the Gorn HDS and any Kzinti being the exception - the furballs are always an exception)

 

[SneakyPete]

Whether or not the Scout has to be the last to fire to be the fourth ship to target a single enemy how is this rule not a massive bonus to Kzinti and Klingon forces at the expense of Feds, Gorn, and Romulans.

With 2 defensive phasers possibly lost by the Scout jamming function a ship could be easily facing 20 or more drones in one turn when facing DN's and BC's.

Scouts are supposed to not carry heavy weapons, yet for the Klinks and Kzinti, drones technically are part of thier heavy weapon arsenal. I am all for giving each race a unique attack profile, but where is the parity?

 

[billclo]

Foray into SFB:

Most scouts were designed to have the special sensors replace heavy weapons. Actually firing heavy weapons (or phaser-1s) "blinded" the sensors for a time. So often times you had the choice of firing phasers defensively as phaser-3s, and using the scout channels via special sensors, or attacking with whatever phasers you had at full power and blind the special sensors (I think it was 1 tactical turn for every Phaser-1 or heavy weapon fired).

Drones in SFB were considered secondary weapons, especially for the Kzinti, and are nowhere near as powerful in that game system as they are in ACTA:SF. They also did not count as heavy weapons and firing them does not blind the special sensors.

Some scouts like the Romulan Sparrowhawk/Skyhawk were designed to have certain weapons hard mounted in the hull (like the Sparrowhawk with it's Plasma-S torp). The modules are swapped out for different ones that allow a different ship configuration. One month the ship is a regular Sparrowhawk, it goes to a star base and has the module swapped out, and goes on it's way next month now a scout or exploration ship.