Scenario Victory Pts

[katadder]

the ships have them in the cost of the ship as it were. they are a bit of added firepower.
paid for fighters you have to kill every last fighter in the wing to get the VPs. and killing 3 vorlon fighters can be harder than killing most the patrol ships out there anyway.

yes you have to pay for fighters, but they only give away the same VPs as anyone else bringing a patrol choice.

 

[Grunvald]

I'm going argue the toss here!

That "BIT" of fire power is so little that take the fighters away and a 1 on 1 basis with other priority lvl ships most can go either way depending on dice rolls!

You put the fighters in and 9 times out of ten they usually end up dog fighting each other, which can go either way depending on what fighters they are!

Now we've been playing a lot of high priority games of late due to our campaign rules (8 to 12 pt battle on average or more) and that "BIT" of added firepower has been show to be a BIG pain in the ass causing more than 1 ship to go BOOM from zero damage!!!

And me playing vorlons this time round, i've seen my fighters go boom very quickly even with a dog of +0 and AAF 1 and Dodge 3+

Its the balance of having to destroy those pesky fighters and getting no vp's for them that becomes more than an anoyace for players!

 

[Grunvald]

Could it be the vp system itself that needs amending??

Why cant it be a set point for each level of ship instead of the moving priority level system that is in the book?

has that even been considered or tried???

 

[katadder]

dont take fighters then. vorlons have nice advanced AA.
fighters have to have a VP cost if you buy them otherwise people would buy all independant wings and win automatically.
on the other hand fighters cannot give away anything if launched or carriers would have no use and for carriers they are an extension of their firepower.
as I said 3 vorlon fighters is generally harder to kill than alot of the patrol ships out there, and probably have more firepower too.

 

[Grunvald]

Nice FF??

yeah they do AAF but it only "1" on Patrol and skirmish lvl 2 at battle and 4 at war and armageddon lvl

But tell me how many games go that high and when faced with ships in other fleets with AF or AAF the vorlons usually find them selves down a point or 2

And you still need good dice rolls!! (or better dice (aimed at shut up hippie))!

 

[katadder]

well AAF1 at patrol is fine, after all thats on a fighter so the equivalent of AAF3 anyway if you get one on one fights with all 3 fighters.
plus you have range 3 so can sit outside enemy AF range once all their fighters are down.
vorlons really dont have alot of room to complain

 

[Grunvald]

No Raid lvl ship
Only fighters at Patrol lvl
Paying double R&R for each ship in campaigns
No Other Duties List

Want me to carry on???

 

[katadder]

automatic crit repairs, including vitals
automatically repair all ships between scenarios in campaigns for free (most races will pay more than double a ships worth over a campaign in repairs/recruiting alone)
very good fighters at patrol, also fleets with only fighters at patrol: Minbari, Brakiri, Shadows. your fighters trump most of these.
getting a raid ship soon.
AA and Self repair on all ships.
Cannot be boarded.
90 degree turns on a battle level vessel.
advanced AF on all ships including fighters.

need me to go on? the vorlons are excellant and if playing a campaign have the huge advantage of never having to repair ships. ok no other duties table but last campaign i played in my ISA never used that anyway.

 

[Grunvald]

I've got to ask this

Have you ver played Vorlons in a campaign?

Out of the two of us at our club that has under normal campaign rules you will get kicked around everytime so self repair or not if your dead your dead and 12 damage on a transport with self repair 1 and AA and AAF1 is rubbish!!!

And since when have Mimbari fighters been been trumped by vrolon fighters??

Heres and open invite come to our club and show us!

I think every fleet is played by someone and your statement does not hold much credit when we've been playing like we have for the past months!!!

 

[H]

I've got to ask this

Have you ver played Vorlons in a campaign?

Out of the two of us at our club that has under normal campaign rules you will get kicked around everytime so self repair or not if your dead your dead and 12 damage on a transport with self repair 1 and AA and AAF1 is rubbish!!!

And since when have Mimbari fighters been been trumped by vrolon fighters??

Heres and open invite come to our club and show us!

I think every fleet is played by someone and your statement does not hold much credit when we've been playing like we have for the past months!!!

Seriously, are you having a laugh? no come on, you have to be, the Vorlons are a bitch to kill, kick out excelent firepower and theyr waves of fighters can be scary as shit.

 

[katadder]

ok 12 damage is generally the equivalent of 24 for the AA vorlons. which is high for a skirmish ship. so each point repaired is worth 2 again.
also unlike WSs you dont have to worry about crew slowing you down.

as for nials v vorlon fighters. have you ever fought these? lets see - 3 vorlon fighters - 2 nials. before the dogfight even starts you have a 3+ chance to kill the nial. if you fail that you lose but with 3 fighters on average over 2 turns you should kill both nials losing a fighter yourself.
now onto shooting - you can sit outside AF range firing a precise beam, thats going to hurt. the nials have to get their hull 4 ships within AF range (AAF if fighting vorlons) which is probably going to see them gone.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Vorlon Transports are decent, they have a precise, DD beam at skirmish, adaptive armour, self-repair, automatically repair criticals, etc, etc.

The Vorlons are a good fleet, under Triggy's leadership they gave me a hell of a run for my money with my Centauri fleet. I lost but it was close and I could have won if a few dice rolls had gone differently. Cetainly my best performance to date.

 

[Grunvald]

You can quote stat's till the cow's come home but playing them is a totally different matter!!

And no i'm not having a laugh!

In big games i wont argue anything they are a tough .......

But ive been talkin campaigns and in the rule book campaign system small point and low level games, everyone takes out the vorlon transport easy by concentrating fire power and being out fightered, again, unless you by 3 fighters for the price of twice what the mimbari can so that 4 vs 3 to mimbari!

 

[Lord David the Denied]

A lot of races suffer in low level games, not least the Minbari you're decrying. Other races suffer in big games, and really, in the grand scheme of things, the Vorlons don't have much cause to moan.

 

[H]

yes, because they don't play with there stats.. no wait they do.. ..

 

[Lord David the Denied]

yes, because they don't play with there stats.. no wait they do.. ..

Wha? :?

 

[Grunvald]

i was thinkin the same thing??? :?:

 

[katadder]

you think its bad for vorlons in small games, try the shadows, they dont have a skirmish choice.
yes they can concentrate on transports, but at skirmish and patrol games there isnt a huge amount of firepower unless facing vree or centauri anyway so they should do ok.
survive with even one damage and that more than pays for the fact they cost double in a campaign. add in the fact your starting fleet doesnt cost double as well and they do really well in campaigns.

 

[Grunvald]

I've played shadows so i know what it is like!

And lets not start on the shadow fighter useless shields shall we!!!

And the hard part is to survive with "1" damage point!!!

 

[katadder]

wasnt going to mention shadow fighters or their shields.
going into a campaign you know you will be paying double for using the ancients, but then you also know they come with alot of bonuses the younger races dont get. self repair in a campaign is huge, so is having no crew. this applies to both races and saves them alot of resouce points. all they have to save their cash for is more ships. so its not all that hard.