RuneQuest - Main Book

[Trifletraxor]

Going through the rules now, trying to adjust it to my own group, keeping as much of the rules as I can.

In see that APP (appearance), one of our old characteristics is gone and replaced with CHA (charisma).

APP purely signified how good looking you were, while CHA is described as a quantification of a characters attractiveness and leadership qualities.

As I understand it, charisma is a blend of POW and APP. This new characteristic CHA, now form the sole base for the Influence skill (as opposed to the old Communication modifier influenced by INT, POW and APP).

Why has CHA taken the place of APP? I know people are more used to CHA from D&D, but I would have prefered the old APP back, with an influence base of POW+APP instead of 10+CHA.

Not much to kick on, won't be houseruling this or anything, would just like to hear your views on this change.

SGL.

 

[GoingDown]

Why has CHA taken the place of APP? I know people are more used to CHA from D&D, but I would have prefered the old APP back, with an influence base of POW+APP instead of 10+CHA.

When RQ3 was out, one of the biggest complains about changes from RQ2 was CHA which was replaced with APP. (ok, actually I am not sure if it was one of the biggest, but I was still something)

When MRQ was on playtest, lots of people were voting for CHA.

I personally like CHA a little bit more. But I think it is just personal preference. I guess most of old RQ2 players will prefer CHA.

 

[Trifletraxor]

I personally like CHA a little bit more. But I think it is just personal preference. I guess most of old RQ2 players will prefer CHA.

Hmm... Yes, I guess it is.


What about the new Damage Modifiers?

A SIZ 50 something with STR 50 does 1D3+2D12 damage with a punch. The damage modifiers have been reduced A LOT!

Also in the opposite direction, the changes to damage modifier is BIG! An average "Halfling" stabbing you with a knife, will probably not be able to get a knife through the skin of your naked belly even if you have cast no spells.

Are these new changes logical?

SGL.

 

[simonh]

Why has CHA taken the place of APP? I know people are more used to CHA from D&D, but I would have prefered the old APP back, with an influence base of POW+APP instead of 10+CHA.

As has been pointed out, RQ orriginaly had CHA and only RQ3 had APP.

I'm not all that bothered either way. Calling it CHA means you can have influential and sociable characters that are that way for resons you define, rathert than simply because they are 'pretty'. In that respect it gives you as player more controll over your character and how you interpret them from their stats, or vice versa. I think that's a good thing.

If you want to houserule that Influence uses both POW and CHA, that's cool and I can see good reasons for it. At the end of the day, this is IMHO a minor issue.

 

[RosenMcStern]

A SIZ 50 something with STR 50 does 1D3+2D12 damage with a punch. The damage modifiers have been reduced A LOT!

4d6 would be more logical, although inferiror to RQ3. But do not forget that the something can now strike four times in 12 secs, whereas in RQ2/3 it could strike once. I guess some DM values were designed with the "minimal damage including modifier on a successful Dodge" rule, but in the final rules the DM is rolled normally - BAD.

Also in the opposite direction, the changes to damage modifier is BIG! An average "Halfling" stabbing you with a knife, will probably not be able to get a knife through the skin of your naked belly even if you have cast no spells.

He is not supposed to be able to damage you. Knife means a small kitchen knife in the game, hardly ever a menace. A Greater knife costs $10 and does 1d3+1, and it is generally available. The Fellowships' daggers were magical ones found in the Barrows, so I doubt they were less than +3 above average, plus enchantments.

Use the alternative tables in S&Pif you like.

Overall, once you explore the system's possibilities, it is not so odd as it seems at first glance. The only things that are generally disliked are armor penalties to attack and the (in)famous Long Bow, or ranged equivalent to a Greatsword. Drop them if you don't like them and the job is done.

 

[GoingDown]

A SIZ 50 something with STR 50 does 1D3+2D12 damage with a punch. The damage modifiers have been reduced A LOT!

Yes, quite. But damage modifiers was one thing we were houseruling in our RQ3 group. New MRQ damage modifiers are actually quite close our modifications.

 

[Trifletraxor]

He is not supposed to be able to damage you. Knife means a small kitchen knife in the game, hardly ever a menace. A Greater knife costs $10 and does 1d3+1, and it is generally available. The Fellowships' daggers were magical ones found in the Barrows, so I doubt they were less than +3 above average, plus enchantments.

Use the alternative tables in S&Pif you like.

I though of a knife more like a pocket knife. Small but sharp, and therefor should be able to penetrate the skin. If it was the "butter knife" type, it shouldn't do damage at all.

I can't use the alternate tables in S&P. I'm bringing back total hit points, and with the new location hit points increase, my game will allready be deadlier than ever! :twisted:

SGL.

 

[Trifletraxor]

I never liked the resistance skill, so I plan to houserule back in good old total hit points (siz+con divided by 2).

I've also chosen to disregard the hit point location table, and instead divide location hit point the following way:
Head - tot.HP x0.4
Arms - tot.HP x0.3
Chest - tot.HP x0.5
Abdom - tot.HP x0.5
Legs - tot.HP x0.4

With the old total hit points rule, this increases the chance of dying, but avoids all the problems with the resistance skill. Total hit points of opponents in published scenarios is quickly calculated as Abdom HP x2.

Anyone else who've chosen to discard the Resistance skill in combat? (I'll keep the skill at CON x5, not able to be improved, for disease & poison, and maybe fatigue)

SGL.

 

[Vadrus]

He is not supposed to be able to damage you. Knife means a small kitchen knife in the game, hardly ever a menace.

Erm knives kill more people every year worldwide than any other weapon, firearms included.


Vadrus

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Well, POW was always seen as being very different to CHA anyway, plus CHA is generally a more useful characteristic to have than APP.

 

[Trifletraxor]

Well, POW was always seen as being very different to CHA anyway, plus CHA is generally a more useful characteristic to have than APP.

I'm convinced. I'll stick with CHA, but I think I'll change the base for influence to POW+CHA, instead of CHA+10.

SGL.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Well, POW was always seen as being very different to CHA anyway, plus CHA is generally a more useful characteristic to have than APP.

I'm convinced. I'll stick with CHA, but I think I'll change the base for influence to POW+CHA, instead of CHA+10.

SGL.

I've done that before. It seemed to click pretty well.

 

[Rurik]

Well, POW was always seen as being very different to CHA anyway, plus CHA is generally a more useful characteristic to have than APP.

I'm convinced. I'll stick with CHA, but I think I'll change the base for influence to POW+CHA, instead of CHA+10.

SGL.

I'm gonna leave it at 10+CHA just so it is one less skill you have to fiddle with every time your POW goes up or down a point. Divine Magicians will thank me.

 

[simonh]

Erm knives kill more people every year worldwide than any other weapon, firearms included.

Every year, thousands of people are injured or killed by their toilets.

As has been pointed out 'knife' covers a wide variety of implements, and the rules give a couple of typical examples.

A Halfling with even the weakest, simplest knife at 1D3 damage can still do 2 points of damage if theire damage bonus rolls low, and with a dagger can inflict up to 4 points of damage.

 

[RosenMcStern]

Erm knives kill more people every year worldwide than any other weapon, firearms included.

The knife I cut my onions with would certainly scare any mediaeval guy. Sadly, the knives that are described in MRQ are not of the same quality. And believe me, I have seen some small, scary pocket knife in my life. Those ones do not deal 1d3 damage.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Well, POW was always seen as being very different to CHA anyway, plus CHA is generally a more useful characteristic to have than APP.

I'm convinced. I'll stick with CHA, but I think I'll change the base for influence to POW+CHA, instead of CHA+10.

SGL.

I'm gonna leave it at 10+CHA just so it is one less skill you have to fiddle with every time your POW goes up or down a point. Divine Magicians will thank me.

Makes sense. POW, in the old days, was always explicitly a measure of the strength of your connection to the world of magic, and nothing else. It only got the partial CHA connotations in RQ3, which MRQ seems to have unfortunately carried over. With the restoration of CHA, it makes sense to also restore POW to it's original meaning (even if doing so does contradict the MRQ rulebook).

 

[Rurik]

Erm knives kill more people every year worldwide than any other weapon, firearms included.

The knife I cut my onions with would certainly scare any medieval guy. Sadly, the knives that are described in MRQ are not of the same quality. And believe me, I have seen some small, scary pocket knife in my life. Those ones do not deal 1d3 damage.

I kinda hate to revisit this one but we had the whole dagger thing out on this board a while back.

In short, a scrub trollkin with a dagger cannot kill a character with one lucky shot as in previous versions of RQ. Of course, part of the appeal of RQ's past was that anyone with any weapon could kill in one blow if they got lucky.

In practice this does not come up a lot. Most characters will be reasonably well equipped and if there foes are wielding halfway decent weapons the system seems deadly enough.

I personally think it is the nerfing of criticals as much as if not more than any changes to HP or tweaking weapon damages/AP that makes the game 'less' deadly.

 

[Trifletraxor]

Anyone remembering getting "backstabbed" by a tiny scopion man in Dorastor? Poor guy is useless now!

SGL.

 

[Trifletraxor]

What about the opposed tests? Anyone who's found a workable houserule? I like the idea of opposed tests, but it does not seem to work so well the way it is written. I'd appreciate any ideas.

SGL.

 

[Rurik]

What about the opposed tests? Anyone who's found a workable houserule? I like the idea of opposed tests, but it does not seem to work so well the way it is written. I'd appreciate any ideas.

SGL.

What about them bothers you?

High roll wins if both succeed AND if both fail gives a better chance of winning to the higher skill. There are old math threads with calculators, formulas, and spreadsheets to analyze opposed rolls and odds.

Using Criticals with opposed rolls barely changes the odds but people like them.

Halving is borked. There have been a number of fixes proposed. I subtract the amount over 100 of the highest skill from both skills, so 120 vs 80 becomes 100 vs. 60.