Whilst I still would prefer the philosophy going forward to be "don't include stuff from other supplements unless it actually works with the design rules", I am nevertheless grateful for this rapid response.
A+ for Excel-Fu
Robot Handbook
- Thread starter SAFCOcast
- Start date
A+ for Excel-Fu
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
That's the thing though, the design rules specify a discount is allowed.Whilst I still would prefer the philosophy going forward to be "don't include stuff from other supplements unless it actually works with the design rules", I am nevertheless grateful for this rapid response.
A+ for Excel-Fu
But robot stuff from other supplements, yeah, some had to be changed in cost and sometimes in hit points since there was no consistent way to make them all work, but I tried to twist them all as best as I could.
For the Vehicle Handbook all of the vehicles are going to be as designed within the system, I'm going with the 'spirit' of the designs but not trying to force every odd shape into the round hole (as in peg, not... never mind). The spreadsheet design I'm working with is a little different, but it won't be hard to put out a 'release notes' doc with the discounts in them.
And I'm supposed to put together a 'translation' thing on 'how to fit your old vehicle design into this new ruleset', which almost by definition can be perfect.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I am looking forward to seeing your new Vehicle book. Even if it is not everything that I want, I am sure that it will still be glorious! Thanks for all your hard work Geir.
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
Thank You. It is this kind of insight that makes being on this forum so much fun.
Thank You Very Much Geir.
This has been nagging at me. I have a suggested solution to the Taskbot issue that might work with a slightly different interpretation of the expansion slot bandwidth rule (and possibly a single word edit).
With the unexpanded TL12 brain you get 2 level zero skills plus 2 bandwidth which you can also spend on zero level skills for a total of 4. The TL10 base brain expansion gives you bandwidth +2 which you could spend on two more level zero skills bringing you up to 6. So we are only looking for 2 more level zero skills.
Page 73 has:
"A brain can hold as many Bandwidth 0 level 0 skills as its base brain Bandwidth score; beyond this, additional Bandwidth 0 skills require Bandwidth 1."
This is the sentence that undermines the Taskbot, but if you ignore the word base (or change it to total), you would then gain the extra 2 level 0 skills you need. This would still mean that bandwidth upgrades increase the bandwidth available for skills but not for maximum skill levels.
This amendment doesn't change the intent of the rule. This wouldn't affect any other design in the book since it changes the potential for skills upward. Those other designs simply don't take advantage of the potential at their price point. I don't think it is necessarily a worse implementation or excessively powerful since you still have to pay for the skills themselves.
It also makes it more consistent with the existing rules wrt. computers. P66 of the CSC has:
"Note that Processing does not limit how much software a computer can store and have ready to use, just how many software packages can be active at once. Beyond TL8, the storage capacity of even a modest computer is effectively unlimited."
Arguably any robot should be able to run any expert package without having to have the brain modified, if a computer of that TL can do it. Expanded brains would allow more to be run simultaneously (though there are logical limits to how many skills you would need to be running at the same time) and the Base Bandwidth would only limit the maximum skill of any particular package.
As the above para makes expansion somewhat redundant you could treat brains similarly to Wafer Jacks that specify bandwidth as the total software that can be installed at one time. That still shouldn't prevent other packages being "stored" and loaded as required (though this would not be quick and you would need to free up the space first. You might also say that anything learned about that skill by one of the more intelligent robots would be lost when that skill is unloaded, making permanent installation beneficial.
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Riffing on the theme where humanoid labour droid can use construction equipment designed for humans...
I can't think of any good reason why even a basic brained droid cannot use other equipment designed for sophonts (vs. having the function built in.)
Can a Robot gain the same benefit from a computer running Expert software that a sophont can? Even a sophont with 3 INT can still benefit from Expert software. Since a robot may well have wireless communications it would be easy to provide it with a computer (in a storage slot) that could feed it hints (like a human with a HUD). If it had even Skill 0 it can use the expert software to get +1 and the computer only needs the Cr100 Intelligent Interface. Suddenly that Taskbot could be quite a bit more useful than many Travellers.
Is this materially any different from a construction droid using a human shovel. Does a robot medic using a conventional medikit get the +1 for a TL10 kit, or a mediscanner. What about other specialists or non specialists using climbing or tool kits etc.
It is much cheaper to give a cheap humanoid droid a cloth trench coat than upgrade its armour (and a tattered coat would give a cheap humanoid security bot a cool Happy Shrapnel vibe).
Obviously there is nothing stopping a highly skilled robot benefitting in the same way. Having something with the intelligence of a toddler running around with sophisticated equipment might generate its own problems. Nevertheless it provides food for thought and you might as well push an idea until the knobs fall off.
I can't think of any good reason why even a basic brained droid cannot use other equipment designed for sophonts (vs. having the function built in.)
Can a Robot gain the same benefit from a computer running Expert software that a sophont can? Even a sophont with 3 INT can still benefit from Expert software. Since a robot may well have wireless communications it would be easy to provide it with a computer (in a storage slot) that could feed it hints (like a human with a HUD). If it had even Skill 0 it can use the expert software to get +1 and the computer only needs the Cr100 Intelligent Interface. Suddenly that Taskbot could be quite a bit more useful than many Travellers.
Is this materially any different from a construction droid using a human shovel. Does a robot medic using a conventional medikit get the +1 for a TL10 kit, or a mediscanner. What about other specialists or non specialists using climbing or tool kits etc.
It is much cheaper to give a cheap humanoid droid a cloth trench coat than upgrade its armour (and a tattered coat would give a cheap humanoid security bot a cool Happy Shrapnel vibe).
Obviously there is nothing stopping a highly skilled robot benefitting in the same way. Having something with the intelligence of a toddler running around with sophisticated equipment might generate its own problems. Nevertheless it provides food for thought and you might as well push an idea until the knobs fall off.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Your change to remove the word 'base' makes sense, I'll throw that at my errata pile.
I wouldn't want to draw too much parallelism between expert programs running on a computer versus a robot (even though the concepts derive from the same basic idea), at least not on an Advanced or better brain, as we assume some sort of *mumble handwave* different architecture for the robot brains that make better able to handle real-world interactions (see *mumble handwave* in the SOM, which will probably in ten years sound the same as 'So you use vacuum tubes? How quaint.' For now, I'd say pulling the program out of the brain would undo any learning associated with the skill (whatever that means... give it a DM for a month?) so you might as well hit the factory reset. Or it's just another game mechanic to justify Travellers doing Role Playing things and robot mostly being sidekicks and 'the staff'.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Oooh, I like that!
And staple a cloth trench coat on a g/bike and you get a nice Mad Max vibe. (Yes, this requires armour-piercing staples - or duct tape)
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
Any problem in mechanics or engineering can be solved with either duct tape or WD-40.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Or a hammer of sufficient momentum (Oooh magic item: The Hammer of Sufficient Momentum... it's in this Bag of Holding right next to the bandolier of Holy Hand Grenades)
Will this be an option you'll be adding to the vehicle handbook
AndrewW
Emperor Mongoose
Duct tape is like the force, has a light and a dark side and holds the universe together.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
And, you can apply more of it.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Technically, but it would need to be a 2 Space g/bike for the 'just staple it' option to work for the +6 trench coat. But you could using the words as written without applying too much scrutiny apply the 2kg +5 cloth jacket instead (assuming a Space ~250kg) to a 1 Space g/bike:Will this be an option you'll be adding to the vehicle handbook
Adding armour to a vehicle is difficult. The easiest method is to apply armour to the outer surface. If the total Spaces of armour (before and after adding it) consumed is less than or equal to 1% of the vehicle’s Spaces, then the addition of the armour can occur by just adding the cost of the added armour, plus 10%.
Those are the words. What you do with the words are your own business. And yes, scanning the list of armour in the CSC, I suppose Advanced or Lightweight Poly Carapace would also work using... more duct tape and maybe some gorilla glue.
Edit: I would also say that a personal sized-piece of armour is only good for covering a one Space vehicle, so if you where trying to cover a 2 Space vehicle, You could only cover 3 of 6 faces (sides) with that cannibalised suit, or 2 faces of a 3 Space vehicle... etc, up to a six Space vehicle with suit suit of 'forward' armour, or six whole suits pieces covering the whole thing...
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