Robot Handbook
- Thread starter SAFCOcast
- Start date
Can someone tell me if the Taskbot (P202) and Labour Droid (P180) are correct.
I cannot work out how the Labour Droid is so cheap (other than arbitrarily "heavily discounted") or how the Taskbot gets so many Level 0 skills.
Do basic brains get cheaper at higher tech levels than TL10?
A TL12 advanced brain has bandwidth 2. It can hold 2 bandwidth 0 skills for free but any additional bandwidth 0 skills are treated as bandwidth 1 so it can hold a maximum of 4 skills at level 0. I don't see any hardware options on the task bot that would provide any additional skills nor any bandwidth upgrade (which does not increase base bandwidth and so would therefore add only as many bandwidth 0 skills as it had bandwidth)
Or are we to treat all the pre-designed robots as "special offers" that are not constrained by the design rules in the book?
I cannot work out how the Labour Droid is so cheap (other than arbitrarily "heavily discounted") or how the Taskbot gets so many Level 0 skills.
Do basic brains get cheaper at higher tech levels than TL10?
A TL12 advanced brain has bandwidth 2. It can hold 2 bandwidth 0 skills for free but any additional bandwidth 0 skills are treated as bandwidth 1 so it can hold a maximum of 4 skills at level 0. I don't see any hardware options on the task bot that would provide any additional skills nor any bandwidth upgrade (which does not increase base bandwidth and so would therefore add only as many bandwidth 0 skills as it had bandwidth)
Or are we to treat all the pre-designed robots as "special offers" that are not constrained by the design rules in the book?
Limpin Legin
Emperor Mongoose
I haven't worked through the build for a Labour Droid, however I did spot that robots can be discounted, at the designer's discretion. From Page 7, STEP 6: "At the designer’s discretion, Cost can be modified – usually downward – to two significant digits and includes discounts based on the ubiquity of the robot design and its role in society." Maybe thee Droid in question has received this treatment, since it looks a fairly ubiquitous design.
For the Labour Droids, the brain alone is KCr4. Walker chassis with reduced armour and 5 less hits is KCr7.5. Even if we assume the extra system it has beyond its default suite might cost peanuts, you you are still looking at KCr11.5.
I looks to the examples in the book to confirm my understanding of the rules. If there is any deviation it needs to be spelled out explicitly so that I can factor it in.
I looks to the examples in the book to confirm my understanding of the rules. If there is any deviation it needs to be spelled out explicitly so that I can factor it in.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
The Labour Droid only has a 45% discount. The base prove was Cr10800, including -Cr800 for reduced slots.
The Taskbot is a little wonky. It was done to emulate an existing design in Aliens of Charted Space v1. What I did was give it an Advanced brain, which is Cr10000 at TL12, then +2 bandwidth upgrade (Cr5000), leaving it with 4, but instead of granting it 4 skills, I did 8 level zero skills. I couldn't think of a 'smarter' way to get it to work.
One reduced slot (-Cr100), Cr3000 for 6 points of resiliency. No discount. Not what would make from scratch, but I'm not a Vargr.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Perhaps in future updates, the discount given should be listed to prevent some of these issues and also, so the Referees know the base price without having to reverse engineer the whole robot. Perhaps in their universe, that particular bot is not discounted.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
In their universe they can set the price to be whatever they want. And they can built the robot however they want as well.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Of course they can. Sorry. It wasn't intended as a dig on you Geir. I love your writing. You know that. My only point is that they can't build the one in the book for the price listed and no discount is listed in the book.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Fair enough. Seth Skorkowsky's failure to duplicate one of them led me to finding an error in my spreadsheet, but sometimes it was just done to match or approximate a previous cost. Everyone can do it differently, but buying a robot - even a new, to say nothing of a 'gentle used - by a grandmother who just used it to fetch some tea' - robot, is a transaction that usually costs more than a car, er, air/raft... maybe g/bike, anyway, and it can be a Carvana* experience, or it can be a Vradulk's New and Pre-owned Autonomons experience where the price and capabilities of the product are more... nebulous.
*Not an endorsement. Never done it. Might be a total pain, but that's the example I'm going with - last two cars I bought were with Costco pricing which is rather painless (plus the dealers seem to stick their newbies on the 'computer referral sales desk' so they're usually not that good at negotiating 'extras'.)
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I am sure that you will be able to find the same robot for 100+ different prices just on one planet. The book price is merely the Manufacturers' Suggested Retail Price.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You usually assume that listed prices are default retail, off the shelf.
Which should include normal margins for everyone along the supply chain.
Which should include normal margins for everyone along the supply chain.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Yep, the MSRP, like on cars. Depends on if you buy your robot from a Brand Name Robot Dealer, like big name car dealerships, or if you buy them at Walmart. lol
So, not so much "off the shelf" as "off the lot"
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You're right, for a somewhat human sized robot, or larger.
Small drone, I think, would likely be sitting on a shelf.
Small drone, I think, would likely be sitting on a shelf.
I understand the difficulty of producing a book of designs that survives multiple iterations of the rules - I used to play Car Wars 
I can also play tunes on the design rules. I was treating it like you buy off the peg, that's the price, you want custom you pay the custom price. If you take an off the peg special and want to retrofit then the new design has to fit the most recent design rules (because those actuators were bespoke for this model and you just can't get them anymore).
Personally I am house ruling that Basic Brains do get cheaper as the TL increases (just like any other computer system). That means I can get a labour droid down to that price point.
I also wouldn't be averse to level 0 skills costing 1/2 bandwidth (after the free ones are used up). I think that makes the Taskbot work. Or maybe that schonky Vargr design has all those skills but they are in offline chips and you can only have 4 loaded at a time (like a Neural Jack).
As it looks like MTU is going to have to have elements of Star Wars in it (because... kids!), and that labour droid is looking like a shoe-in for a battledroid. Just swap out the Labourer brain for a Security or Hunter-Killer, add a recon module to make it a bit more flexible and you are good to go. The fact it will go down after being hit with nerf gun fits thematically as well. As a humanoid model you can equip it with normal sophont weaponry and equipment. An SMG is probably good enough or the gun will cost more than the droid.
I can also play tunes on the design rules. I was treating it like you buy off the peg, that's the price, you want custom you pay the custom price. If you take an off the peg special and want to retrofit then the new design has to fit the most recent design rules (because those actuators were bespoke for this model and you just can't get them anymore).
Personally I am house ruling that Basic Brains do get cheaper as the TL increases (just like any other computer system). That means I can get a labour droid down to that price point.
I also wouldn't be averse to level 0 skills costing 1/2 bandwidth (after the free ones are used up). I think that makes the Taskbot work. Or maybe that schonky Vargr design has all those skills but they are in offline chips and you can only have 4 loaded at a time (like a Neural Jack).
As it looks like MTU is going to have to have elements of Star Wars in it (because... kids!), and that labour droid is looking like a shoe-in for a battledroid. Just swap out the Labourer brain for a Security or Hunter-Killer, add a recon module to make it a bit more flexible and you are good to go. The fact it will go down after being hit with nerf gun fits thematically as well. As a humanoid model you can equip it with normal sophont weaponry and equipment. An SMG is probably good enough or the gun will cost more than the droid.
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
While true, I do not think it would be unfair to ask to understand how the example items were made using the rules as presented so a new person can use them as a learning tool.
Maybe it would be better to just not include those things that were designed using different rules in other supplements. I don't necessarily have any of the supplements where these previous designs were published, so I don't care two hoots that the new version is different since I have nothing to compare with. If they don't match the design rules in the book they appear in I cannot fail to notice the inconsistency.While true, I do not think it would be unfair to ask to understand how the example items were made using the rules as presented so a new person can use them as a learning tool.
If the publisher wanted to go the extra mile they could release errata for the other books or they could simply note in an appendix to the design book that there are other designs that appear in other supplements (and maybe list them) that are inconsistent without actually needing to correct them.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I agree that stuff that can’t be built with the rules doesn’t need to be there. And the builds need to be checked for accuracy.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
And I answered the questions. Same day service in this case. (depending on time zones and datelines)While true, I do not think it would be unfair to ask to understand how the example items were made using the rules as presented so a new person can use them as a learning tool.
When I have time (a.ka. in a year that does not end in 4) I could scare up a list 'o discounts for the robot's in the book.
Or maybe for the vehicle handbook each illustration should come with a little sticker that says: XX% off list price! except the list price is like the 10% discount buried some Highguard designs: It's because it's a standard design and comes off an assembly line that's been running on dozens of world for hundred of years.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Oh crap I just thought of a 2 minute way to get that data. So here it is:
(A negative discount is a price premium)
(A negative discount is a price premium)
| Robot Name | Discount |
| "Brian" Ship's Brain | 0% |
| Advanced Courier | 10% |
| Advanced Probe Drone | 30% |
| Advisor Robot | -53% |
| AG300 Agricultural Worker | 15% |
| Alpha Ship's Brain | 0% |
| Ammobot | 0% |
| Android Body Cyborg, Advanced | 0% |
| Android, Enhanced | 1% |
| Android, Superior | 0% |
| Angel of Mercy | 0% |
| Arerl (slave machine) | 0% |
| Astro-Mech Droid | 0% |
| Autodoc, advanced | -8% |
| Autodoc, basic | 1% |
| Autodoc, improved | 1% |
| Ava Ship's Avatar | 1% |
| BandBot | 0% |
| Basic Courier | 10% |
| Battle Mule | 3% |
| BDVSR Bartender | 0% |
| BeautyBot | 5% |
| Body Double | -25% |
| Breaker-of-Lines | -8% |
| Brokerbot | 0% |
| Bulk Delivery Servitor (BDS) | -1% |
| Ceiling Cat | 0% |
| Centurion | 0% |
| Clearance 600 Crowd Dispersal Unit | 0% |
| Cloning Creche | 2% |
| Cloning Vat | -8% |
| Combat Drone | 0% |
| Combat Vehicle Brain, Advanced | 0% |
| Combat Vehicle Brain, Basic | 0% |
| Combat Vehicle Brain, Improved | 0% |
| Companion | 3% |
| Construction Nano Queen | 0% |
| Counsellor | 0% |
| Courier Drone | 10% |
| Creeper Assassin | 0% |
| Crew Droid | 0% |
| Danger Droid | 0% |
| Deep Diver Droid | 0% |
| DesiGnator | 0% |
| Distant Lance | 42% |
| Domestic Servant | 33% |
| Dupal Companion Robot | 10% |
| eGore | 50% |
| Elvis Performance Double | 11% |
| Emergency Medical Response Robot | 0% |
| Entourage BioBot | 0% |
| Exploration Rover | 0% |
| Exterminator | 0% |
| EyeSpy Satellite | 0% |
| Fighting Strongpoint | 0% |
| Floating Strongpoint | 0% |
| Flying Gun, Large | 0% |
| Flying Gun, Medium | 0% |
| Flying Gun, Small | 0% |
| Flying Sword | 0% |
| Forensic Scout | 0% |
| Forensic Supervisor Droid | 0% |
| Friend of the Lowly | 40% |
| Grav Mule | 0% |
| Grav Pioneer | 1% |
| Guardian-of-Glory | 32% |
| Heavy Warbot | 20% |
| Hikare' (technician) | 0% |
| Hive Queen | 0% |
| Hiver Gardener Servant | 0% |
| Hiver Hazardous Environment Scout | 0% |
| Hiver Marine Boarding Droid | 0% |
| Hunter Bug | 0% |
| Impersonator | -22% |
| Keshean Gaa | 0% |
| Khyeseir (mousebot) | 75% |
| Kimim AAR | 0% |
| Lab Control Robot, Advanced | 10% |
| Lab Control Robot, Basic | 10% |
| Labour Droid | 45% |
| Light Warbot | 52% |
| Long Duration Security Robot | 0% |
| Low Berth, Advanced | 25% |
| Low Berth, Grav | 20% |
| Macro Hero | 0% |
| Maintenance Bot | 50% |
| Meatbox Pilot | 1% |
| Medium Warbot | 48% |
| Medivac Robot | 20% |
| Micro Hero | -5% |
| Mining Bot | 15% |
| Mining Drone | 25% |
| Missile (Chassis) | 50% |
| Mortarbot | 0% |
| Naasirka Model 899 | 2% |
| Nano Hero | 0% |
| Nursebot | 5% |
| Offworld Construction Drone | 0% |
| Offworld Construction Master Robot | 0% |
| Omega Ship's Brain | 0% |
| Opener-of-the-Way | 41% |
| Peacekeeper Riot Control Robot | 0% |
| Peeping Spybot | 0% |
| Popcorn Drone | 0% |
| PopcornBot | 0% |
| Probe Drone | 30% |
| Protocol Droid | 0% |
| Repair Drone (L) | 9% |
| Repair Drone (M) | 15% |
| Repair Drone (S) | 15% |
| Repair Drone (XL) | 13% |
| Repair Drone (XS) | 10% |
| Robodiver | 3% |
| ROvER | 0% |
| RPRU | 1% |
| Sabmiqys | 0% |
| Sanitation Droid | 5% |
| Scout Mite | 0% |
| Searcher Microbot | 0% |
| Security Drone | 0% |
| Shadow Security Robot | 0% |
| Ship's Mechanic Robot | 0% |
| Sindalian Deathbot | 0% |
| Sindalian Enforcement Robot | 0% |
| Skitter | 30% |
| Sky Spotter | 16% |
| Slayer-of-Shields | 4% |
| Smart Probe Bot | 20% |
| Special Delivery Servitor | -5% |
| Spider Bomb | 0% |
| Standard Engineer Droid (SED) | 0% |
| Starship Repair Boss | 0% |
| StarTek | 0% |
| Stewaid | 0% |
| Steward Droid | 10% |
| Surgeon Bot | 0% |
| Surrogate Droid, Basic | 10% |
| Surrogate Droid, Improved | 8% |
| Synthetic Horse | 50% |
| Taskbot | 0% |
| Toolsack Workbot | 0% |
| Torpedo (Chassis) | 20% |
| Tour Guide | 6% |
| Trapper Hunter Droid (THD) | 0% |
| Trashbot | 68% |
| Type C Cargo Loader | 0% |
| Ultima | 0% |
| Ultra | 0% |
| Urban Pacification Police Robot | 0% |
| Utility Droid | 15% |
| Vigilance customs control robot (VCCR) | 0% |
| Walking Strongpoint | 0% |
| Zombie | 25% |
