Repairing Critical hits

[PsiTraveller]

This would get rid of the successive Crit cascade of a handful of fighters getting an Effect 6+ Crit each round and cascading upwards with the Severity +1 effect for previously damaged systems. It still allows for a handful of fighters to strip off armour to get a cumulative Critical. The Criticals will occur but at a slower pace.

Looking at a pocket battleship of 1200 tons it has 480 Hull Points (and yes this is the Drinaxian fight I am prepping for ) Dealing 48 points of cumulative damage to the ship will cause a Critical of Severity 1.This ship has 10 points of armour (pg 133 of Aslan book 1st edition)

So can a handful of fighters who make it into dogfighting range chew a battleship to pieces? And should they be able to?

Assume 5 fighters make it into dogfighting range. I've made a 10 ton fighter with Thrust 9, Thruster 6 to give them the speed of a missile. They have Reflec armour over top of 13 points of Crystaliron.
A core 20 computer runs Fire control 2 and Evade 1 software. A Beam laser firmpoint with an upgraded intense focus laser. This gives AP 2. Total cost is just over 17 million Credits.

The fighters will win the Pilot check and get +2 to attack. The minuses facing the battleship pretty much guarantees it. (-11 for tonnage over 100 for a start)

So a single ship will have
+2 to attack pilot check
Pilot check +1 to line up shot
Gunner skill 2
Fire Control 2
Beam Laser 4
+10 to attack, hit with an Effect of 9. Damage would be 1D-1D (for sandcasters) so 9-8 for armour (10-2Ap from Tech upgrade) for 1 points of damage per attack. So a single fighter will do 1 points every 6 seconds, 10 points a minute. So five fights will be doing 1 points every six seconds, and a critical hit from cumulative damage every minute. The battleship would be putting out 5 barrels of sand every six seconds to counteract the lasers. In one spaceship round the ship will have suffered 6 Cumulative Criticals and be destroyed to 0 Hull in under

The battleship would be hard pressed to hit the fighters, -6 from beng a spaceship and Evade 1 is -7 on all rolls. The bays suffer an addition -4 to hit the small ships.
Even if the Beam lasers hit they would do 1D + 2 for triple lasers vs 16 armour reduction of the reflective Crystaliron. Again we enter the realm of nibbled to death by ducks territory. Opposing fighters may not even be able to damage a highly armoured fighter. The Armour reduction will prevent damage.

Missiles may be able to get past this if the salvo is large enough or High enough tech.

 

[arcador]

I will just enter with a side question here - where is the rule that 10 ton fighters get -6 DM to being hit by spaceship class ship? I can get it to a total of -2 (DM -2 to hit, for losing the dogfighting check).

 

[Nerhesi]

I will just enter with a side question here - where is the rule that 10 ton fighters get -6 DM to being hit by spaceship class ship? I can get it to a total of -2 (DM -2 to hit, for losing the dogfighting check).

Page 162, under DogFights in right coloumn.

"In addition, spacecraft of 100 tons or more are not designed for this kind of ‘knife-fight’ and will suffer DM-6 on all attack rolls they attempt."

 

[PsiTraveller]

yeah, that -6 gives a nice safety net to a fighter, and the Adjacent range band prevents a Tech Level advantage and smart trait for missiles because they are too close. (pg 161). So that is -8 to counter software, laser bonus and gunner skill. It helps.

High armour value and reflec makes ships really tough to hurt with lasers from turrets, heck it makes them tough to hurt with some bay weapons. Particle beam radiation hits are pretty tough to ignore when there are only 1 or 2 people in the fighter. It is just that first step of getting a hit.

here is a question: My Thrust 15 fighter example: If a ship shoots a missile at it that is Thrust 10, at Close or Adjacent range, can the missile actually catch up to the fighter?

 

[Nerhesi]

yeah, that -6 gives a nice safety net to a fighter, and the Adjacent range band prevents a Tech Level advantage and smart trait for missiles because they are too close. (pg 161). So that is -8 to counter software, laser bonus and gunner skill. It helps.

High armour value and reflec makes ships really tough to hurt with lasers from turrets, heck it makes them tough to hurt with some bay weapons. Particle beam radiation hits are pretty tough to ignore when there are only 1 or 2 people in the fighter. It is just that first step of getting a hit.

here is a question: My Thrust 15 fighter example: If a ship shoots a missile at it that is Thrust 10, at Close or Adjacent range, can the missile actually catch up to the fighter?

By the current rules, yes. I would think we can simply put a -X , where X is the difference between craft and missile thrust.

 

[PsiTraveller]

Except we cannot agree on what makes the TL of the ship. Is it the computer? Sensors? TL of armour installed? What makes it difficult for the missile to hit or miss?

 

[Nerhesi]

Except we cannot agree on what makes the TL of the ship. Is it the computer? Sensors? TL of armour installed? What makes it difficult for the missile to hit or miss?

Well - thats why I think Smart isnt Smart should be assumed without any TL bonus one way or the other. If a missile isn't smart, it's not hitting a friggin planet in space combat.

However, thats not constructive - so to address the issue:

To determine the TL for smart, take the highest value from any of the following: Missile, Bridge, Computer, Electronics

Obviously the drive or the hull isn't going to affect, but the rest seem straight forward (which means they require explicit specification or errata )

 

[PsiTraveller]

How do you figure TL on a bridge?

Hull was a stretch, it improves damage prevented (possibly), if enough is added on.

I like the computers, sensors and missile thought though.

Edit: I was also thinking of counter measures suite, but there is no tech level on that. 15 tons and 28 MCr, but it does not help against missiles. (other than the +6 to EW attempts)

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

The TL of the ship thing? Will be on Page 6 of the next update (coming this week!).

 

[Nerhesi]

Hi guys,

The TL of the ship thing? Will be on Page 6 of the next update (coming this week!).

Cool - and new Critical Thresholds for Effect 6+ hits on larger ships sir?

 

[PsiTraveller]

Page 6: TECH LEVEL
Before you start building your ship, decide on the Tech Level of the ship yard that will construct it. This is the maximum Tech Level available for any given component you add, and will also serve as the overall Tech Level of the ship itselt.

typo on the word itself, last word in paragraph. So if I have a TL 15 shipyard and build a ship and declare it is TL 15, but use a TL 12 design, what bonus do missiles get?
I still do not see what is the defining factor in determining the TL of a ship, other than the declaration is it TL X, or was built in a TL X yard.

The Critical hit issue is resolved Nerhesi. I know you are discussing it in another thread but to just close off the question in this thread, no critical hits on ships over 2000 tons from turrets or barbettes or firmpoints. Cumulative damage still applies. So no more cascade failure from Effect 6+ fighter shots. Pg 25 of Feb Highguard

 

[Nerhesi]

Page 6: TECH LEVEL
Before you start building your ship, decide on the Tech Level of the ship yard that will construct it. This is the maximum Tech Level available for any given component you add, and will also serve as the overall Tech Level of the ship itselt.

typo on the word itself, last word in paragraph. So if I have a TL 15 shipyard and build a ship and declare it is TL 15, but use a TL 12 design, what bonus do missiles get?
I still do not see what is the defining factor in determining the TL of a ship, other than the declaration is it TL X, or was built in a TL X yard.

The Critical hit issue is resolved Nerhesi. I know you are discussing it in another thread but to just close off the question in this thread, no critical hits on ships over 2000 tons from turrets or barbettes or firmpoints. Cumulative damage still applies. So no more cascade failure from Effect 6+ fighter shots. Pg 25 of Feb Highguard

Awesome Thanks buddy - that is really good. So now Large Bays are basically not just Sniper-bays, they're sniper-crit bays. This is really cool as it adds value to the bays which are 5 times the size and hardpoints, for only a minor damage increase.

 

[PsiTraveller]

So now you focus on adding software boosts to the targeting, and enhance the Large Bay gunner team cybernetically and go for those Effect 6+ Crits.
Tech upgrades for AP or extra damage, or Accuracy for that extra +1 to push the Effect number higher.

A Large Bay has a crew of 4. Who gets the targeting check? And do you have to have all of them enhanced? or just the guy making the final adjustments and pulling the trigger?

 

[Nerhesi]

For large ships with crews , we historically had "crew ratings", not the stat of a particular person:
0 = Recruit
1 = Green
2 = Regular
3 = Veteran
4 = Elite

And a "legendary officer" could add a +1 to that particular section they were attached to (example, legendary screening officer, legendary gunnery officer, legendary piloting officer etc etc)

 

[PsiTraveller]

Just an update on a Cumulative Crit inducing fighter I am tinkering with. It pushes the limits on what a fighter has because as AnotherDilbert pointed out, fighters can end up with high armour values. As I have pointed out before I am running the Drinax campaign and am looking at the challenges the Aslan 1200 ton pocket battleship represents to a group. The armour of 10 really limits the impact of weapons against it from non bay possessing ships.
So this fighter would do quite well against it, and other ships. No Crits from Effect 6+ hits, just cumulative damage. At issue is the 6 second round, so cumulative damage accumulates 60 times faster than regular space combat damage.

TL 15 fighter
Tonnage: 40
Streamlined, TL 12 Stealth and Emissions Control (,8 tons)
Bonded Superdense Armour: 14 points 4.48 tons
M-Drive: Thrust 9: 3.6 tons
High Burn Thruster (a la Nerhesi): Thrust 6: 4.8 tons
Power Plant: TL 15: 4 tons
Fuel: 7 tons for Power Plant and Thruster
2 person Cockpit: 2.5 tons
TL 10 Core Computer: Rating 50
Sensors: Tl 15 Advanced: 5 Tons
Electronics: Enhanced Signal Processing: 2 Tons
Weapon: 2 Firmpoints = 1 Barbette conversion
Fusion Barbette: 5 tons of space internal
Tech Upgrade: 250% cost Long Range (Up to Close range now), Very High Yield (corrected since Nerhesi pointed out Fusion cannot have AP)
Damage: 5D, Radiation,
Software: Fire Control 5, Evade 3

Tonnage Used: 39.18
Cost: 125.7 Million Credits

This takes a 40 ton fighter with 2 Firmpoints and turns it into a barbette firing Plasma weapon of 5D and a radiation hit. Increasing the weapon cost with a TL1 15 upgrade gives AP 2 and increases range to Close. I was thinking of the Tachyon Cannon, but the 5D with 2AP does more damage. (2D = 7 Average with 10 AP so 10 damage against the Aslan ship). 5D is 17.5 damage-10 Armour is 7 points of damage)

The ship is very expensive, but given the 14 points of armour and stealth capabilities it will be tough to get a lock on it. The second crewmember could act as Sensor Operator to gain Target Locks and shake do EW attempts.
The 50 Core computer runs Evade 3, giving a -3 to all attacks, which will add to the -6 big ships already have in dogfighting. The 14 points of armour will remove most laser damage anyway.

Attack rolls will be at Gunner skill 2 + Software 5 + Pilot 1 (possibly). So Effect will be 6 or more for the Damage roll.

Damage is 17 + 6 for Effect - 10 for the armour is 15 points of damage every 6 seconds. 150 points of damage every minute.

On a 1200 ton ship with 480 Hull points, 48 points of Cumulative damage is a Severity 1 Critical hit. The ship will be getting 2 Crits the first minute, and going up from there. If the hits occur in the same location the Severity is increase by 1. This could cause a lot of problems for a large ship. While the Effect 6 Critical has been removed from the equation (which in this case could have been 10 Criticals a minute), it is possible to rack up a lot of damage against a larger ship while avoiding damage because of the -9 to hit (plus EW jamming etc) in dogfighting.

Have I missed anything in the build? any screwups in math?

 

[Nerhesi]

What is the 5D barbette? Fusion? I didn't think it could get the AP2 improvement

 

[PsiTraveller]

Whoops, you are correct, pg 52. See what happens when you cut and paste over your pulse laser design? my bad.

So damage will be 17 + 6 Effect -10 Armour = 13 damage, not 15.

I edited the post above, and changed 2 AP to Very High Yield. So now the Fusion gun does 20 points of damage per hit on average.

20 + 6 Effect - 10 armour = 16 damage per round.
I also forgot about mentioning the 10 radiation crew hits per minute. The crew could be taking some minor damage every 6 seconds unless they are in protective gear or the ship has more than the standard 500 points of protection.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Obvious trick: Uptech the reaction drive with two Reduced Fuel Consumption for half the reaction fuel, that will save you quite a lot of space.

Against a 1200 dt enemy you can still overwhelm him with crits. Go for Accurate instead of VHYield, +attack means more crits, and you lose very little damage.

 

[PsiTraveller]

Well the reaction drive is only 6 tons, but the fuel saving may be worth it, depending on what the 3 tons is going to be used for.

The ship needs to be over 2000 tons to be immune to Crits. I am running the battleship so used it as an example. A 2000 ton ship will have 800 Hull so at 16 points of damage a hit it will be a crit every 30 seconds from Cumulative damage. That will add up.

I will have to look at missiles again to see how many will swamp the ship. Would missiles get -6 to attack in dogfighting? At Thrust 15 could missiles not catch up? Standard missiles of thrust 10 would not be able to catch up. Would the immediate time at Close or Adjacent range negate the speed of the ship?