Religon in the Traveller universe.Many paths.

I stumbled across a reference to a modern form of 10 commandments. while reading Richard Dawkins' book "The God Delusion" -

http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/new10c.html
 
Good commandments.

I'd have listed them in a different order, with amendments, thus:-

1. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.
2. Strive to maintain a mindset open to learning new things.
3. Question everything. Questions, not answers, mark the beginning of wisdom.
4. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them. Only through error can one get to correctness.
5. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; let reason, rather than blind obedience, guide you.
6. In all things, strive for actions which cause improvement, rather than harm - even if the harm only occurs as a byproduct or consequence.
7. Respect the right of others to disagree with you; allow them their alternate viewpoints, but resist any attempts to forcibly foist those viewpoints upon yourself or others.
8. Remain ready to look directly upon evil and administer justice, but where the perpetrator freely admits guilt and genuine remorse, and where the perpetrator can and does make full reparation, stand ready to forgive freely.
9. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.
10. Do unto others exactly as you would have them do unto you.
 
BenTOGS said:
Religon in the trav universe is something that has always needed exploring. Can you imagine the variations of the Earths faiths cast among the stars and 3000 years of history? Much less all the new beliefs from othrr cultures and races?

Yes.

hdan wrote:
Aslan: They strive to control territory like we strive to perceive patterns. They *are* spiritual after a fashion, but it seems to derive more from their sense of history (as it relates to territory) than a need for explanation. Now maybe Aslan females operate in a different way...

Vargr: Are driven by the need for "pecking order". Thus, their religions tend towards defining their place in the universe. This drive is similar to Humaniti in effect, but not in source.

K'Kree: Don't know much about their religions if any, but they clearly see themselves as a chosen people who will save the universe from the abomination of carnivorousness.

Hivers: ? Don't seem like they'd be religious in any way that we'd understand. I suspect they are complete nihilists and might be the only race that embraces the idea that all life is a cosmic accident, and the only purpose or social reality is what you make for yourself.

Droyne: They have been so heavily monkeyed with by Grandfather that it's hard to tell what they would naturally do. One might even suspect each Caste has its own fundamental drives and religions, but it's hard to imagine a Priest sub-caste for each caste, so Droyne Caste-Faiths would most likely be Pagan-like, with oral traditions and "folk knowledge".

Excellent encapsulation/ synopsis Mssr hdan!
 
I personally think that religion will follow mankind to the stars.

I think upon first contact mankind will attempt to assimilate the new aliens met into their versions of being "Children of God"--rightly or wrongly, it is human nature to do so to comprehend, to look for commonality between ourselves.

IMTU, I do project that not only will the eastern religions of Asia, but also the Western world, and Middle east will project themselves with colonists into the stars of the Traveller 'Verse of Known Space.

Like Fading Suns, I see schisms in certain ones over Aliens and issue can they become followers, based on whether or not they exhibit "Humaniti" or not.

I also see schisms where politics are concerned (Solomani Rim War anyone?) between faiths.

I see NGO's despite politics and faith that reach across beliefs, and come together for a Panstellar Red Diamond relief agency.

I disagree with those who think with enough science we will forget our faith, and our Creator(s)/ Guiding Spirits/ what have you.

I do think more should be done on the subject matter, and am happy to report, that I am currently doing just that.

Hopefully I stayed on topic,
 
Liam Devlin said:
IMTU, I do project that not only will the eastern religions of Asia, but also the Western world, and Middle east will project themselves with colonists into the stars of the Traveller 'Verse of Known Space.
Islam in space would be an interesting subject with many colourful details,
for example the way the colonists determine the direction towards Mecca
or the beginning of Ramadan, or how they organize their Hadj to Mecca.
I think Rikki Tikki Traveller has worked on a setting of this kind.

The Mosaic religion would also have to find new solutions for old problems
in space, for example how to determine the beginning and end of Sabbat
or which of the alien animals and plants of a colony world are kosher.

Lots of material to give a setting colour and depth.
 
rust said:
Liam Devlin said:
IMTU, I do project that not only will the eastern religions of Asia, but also the Western world, and Middle east will project themselves with colonists into the stars of the Traveller 'Verse of Known Space.
Islam in space would be an interesting subject with many colourful details,
for example the way the colonists determine the direction towards Mecca
or the beginning of Ramadan, or how they organize their Hadj to Mecca.
I think Rikki Tikki Traveller has worked on a setting of this kind.

The Mosaic religion would also have to find new solutions for old problems
in space, for example how to determine the beginning and end of Sabbat
or which of the alien animals and plants of a colony world are kosher.

Lots of material to give a setting colour and depth.

Herr Rust,

Agreed, although I will say that is one of of several faiths thus affected with the introduction of affordable passage and FTL that pilgrims from the expanding Solomani-Confederation/Earth Union/ 2nd Imperium.

The way I foresee it, with contact with sentient alien races in the TU aspect, for the Sol-Terrans is the Humaniti one. Likewise, even at TL-12/ Jump-3 capability, how far is too far away to make the Hajj? Go to Rome? Go to Jersualem? Go Kyoto? Or any other Holy City of Mother Earth.

Over the conquered Vilani Imperium, there came reforms and schisms, some based on stellar astrographical facts--it would take too long to get there with leaving 52 weeks or more at J-3 to make it a particular year. So new Holy City sites had to be created, at least on a Sector-by Sector level for management purposes of the flock of faithful.

How many of the faithful could take 2 years away from their lives to make it (one to get there, one to return)?

For the Protestant-Christians, this was not as big a deal as say for the Catholic faiths, or Islam. Judaisim to a lesser extent, Buddhism and Taosim created new sites for the far flung faithful on their own, as did the Hinduists. Just as regions were ethnically settled, so too went religions with them usually found in their cultures in the Solomani Rim. It is outside the Old expanses, Diaspora, and Solomani Sectors where this became mixed.

The impact of alien cultures of course affected proselytizing efforts--can we convert an XYZ to the faith? Do XYZ have souls, as we humans call it?
In my viewpoint, taking the "Us versus Them" aspect of the Nth Interstellar wars in hand against the Vilani, the faiths had to make some changes due to the constraints of manpower and expansion manning the fleets, and colonization in depth to rimwards to secure at least that end of the galaxy from any possible "alien invaders".

The Galactic Catholic Faith made two great reforms in this time period:
The First Great Reform reinstituted the Holy Warrior Orders, Like the Knights of St. George (the dragon in this case being the Vilani Imperium for those familiar with the legend), and St John the Hospitaller.
The Second Great Reform was the allowance finally of women to be Priests (heretical, but inevitable I know nowadays; but we speak of centuries from now do we not?), and became known as the G2RC-- Galactic Twice Reformed Catholic Church.

Islam, not being bound by a single High Prelate like the 2GRC was, but still tied to the three great holy sites of Terra, flourished as well--albeit the Sunni remained the more numerous than the Shia, based on the facts of it being easier to be trained to be an Imam is faster than being born into a bloodline going back to Mohammed and his disciple Ali. Prayer directions for the far flung faithful now for these settlers were aimed in the galactic direction towards terra (and thus towards Mecca, Medina, & Jerusalem) depending on wher they lay spinwards, rimwards, trailing, or corewards from Terra.

Also arising in this momentous period of change and unity against a common foe, was a Unity Faith that sought to bring the 'Children of the Book' as the Quran speaks of them, into one, seeking the True Names of God. This while popular at the time, never arose above the status of a Cult until after the Long Night.

The other major faith encountered not of Droyne, Darmine, Geonee, Vilani, Hiver, K'Kree, or Vargr faith to have an impact on the terran religions was the Church of the Stellar Divinity (CoSD).

According to sources which we cannot reprint directly from at this time (2nd Canon according to Traveller wiki from DGP), the Vilani encountered it first, and it spread within the 1st Imperium with the Trade routes, being perhaps strongest in the region of Antares Sector.

All these faiths, and those not listed above, were affected by the Long Night. More on that later.

Off from work, and time to crash for a bit gents!
 
rust said:
The Mosaic religion would also have to find new solutions for old problems
in space, for example how to determine the beginning and end of Sabbat
or which of the alien animals and plants of a colony world are kosher.

I think you meant "Hallal".


.
 
It would be interesting to extrapolate the various changes to Earth religions in an interstellar setting. Might be something I'll incorporate.
 
barnest2 said:
Seeing as the 'Mosaic religion' is Judaism ...
Yep, the German words for Jew and Judaism sadly have too often been
used with a derogatory subtext, so some of us over here prefer the neu-
tral Mosaic faith or Mosaic religion.
 
I actually had a conversation with a rabbi about some of these issues - he was a SF reader - and his take on the issues were as follows:

Kashruth (keeping kosher): The rules regarding clean and unclean animals are both specific enough and loose enough that they should be generally applicable to nonterrestrial life forms. Where kashruth doesn't speak (e.g., specific fowl/xenoavians), work it out based on analogy and minhagim; if you're coming at it without benefit of rabbinical counsel, you're making up your own minhag from your understanding of Torah and Talmud (and this is perfectly permissible).

Jerusalem: Two possible solutions to this: (1) Take a stone from Jerusalem-on-Terra (the Old City); maintain chain-of-evidence/chain-of-rabbinical-custody until landing on the new world; plant stone at landing site; stone is now Symbolic Jerusalem for this world. (2, more complicated) Use actual stellar direction for Jerusalem-on-Terra; this could require varying prayer times and/or directions so that you are reasonably accurately facing Jerusalem-on-Terra, and at the same time not needing to face straight up or straight down relative to local gravity. He preferred (1). So do I.

Islam faces roughly the same issues with respect to halal and Mecca; in his Legio del Cid/Terra Nova series, Tom Kratman had his Moslems take a stone from the Kaaba (from the structure, not the Black Stone itself), plant it on the new world, and that became their Symbolic Mecca. Halal is essentially kashruth, though the Moslem interpretation of the requirements is in fact looser than the Jewish interpretation (e.g., a cheeseburger does not inherently break halal, though it does break kashruth if the cheese is real milk cheese and the meat is real meat); most a'immah will say that if a Moslem is somewhere where he is able to get kosher foods but not halal, get kosher; rabbim do not indicate a preference for halal over other non-kosher in the event of kosher unavailability.

It should be noted that both Judaism and Islam have prohibitions against putting the law over the preservation of life; one way I've heard a rabbi sum it up was "If it's a choice between breaking kashruth or dying, eat the damn pork!".

(N.B. For those who are concerned about terminology, e.g., 'Judaism/Jewish' vs 'Mosaic faith', [a] I'm Jewish, and if you use proper English grammatical markers on the word to match the English usage, you won't offend. For example, you can speak about 'the Jewish faith' or 'Judaism' or 'Jewish money', but not 'Jew money' or 'the Jew faith'. Obviously, non-offense doesn't apply to phrases deliberately cast to be offensive, regardless of grammatical propriety. In this thread so far, I have seen no examples of usages where properly-marked variants of 'Judaism' or 'Jewish' would have resulted in an offensive statement.)

(N.B. A more important distinction needs to be made with respect to that faith which holds Mohammed (pbuh) as the 'seal of prophecy'. The correct name of the faith in English is "Islam" (e.g., "The official religion of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is Islam.", "She professes her religion to be Islam.", etc.); the personal noun and adjective is "Moslem" (e.g., "He is Moslem/He is a Moslem/He follows the Moslem faith", "Moslem practices include hajj and fasting during Ramadan.", etc.). "Islamic/Islamist" refers to a political movement that masquerades as a religious one; "Muslim" (as in "Black Muslim") refers to the putatively religious component of a nationalist movement among African-Americans that practices a distorted subset of ritual forms originally derived from Islam. Both the term and the movement are essentially moribund; many African-Americans now practice a more orthodox, if somewhat liberal, form of Islam.)
 
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