Religon in the Traveller universe.Many paths.

[alex_greene]

The old adage "There are no atheists in a foxhole." (and similar) has never been true

What on Earth does that saying mean anyway? It perplexes me, unless it's intended to say that humans, facing fear and terror in extremis, instinctively turn to God - which I surely doubt as much as any of the atheists do on these fora.

 

[DFW]

It perplexes me, unless it's intended to say that humans, facing fear and terror in extremis, instinctively turn to God - which I surely doubt as much as any of the atheists do on these fora.

Go ask 100 guys that have been under heavy shelling sitting out in a fox hole. The only way to know if it is true (I have no idea).

 

[alex_greene]

I can only imagine the proper reply to "There are no atheists in s foxhole" to be "No, because either they were blown away instantly on impact or they're already getting the hell out of there instead of wasting their time drawing attention to themselves by standing still and praying so a sniper can draw a bead."

 

[alex_greene]

It perplexes me, unless it's intended to say that humans, facing fear and terror in extremis, instinctively turn to God - which I surely doubt as much as any of the atheists do on these fora.

Go ask 100 guys that have been under heavy shelling sitting out in a fox hole. The only way to know if it is true (I have no idea).

I imagine that the language would be more colourful profanity than divine invocation, under such circumstances.

 

[DFW]

Go ask 100 guys that have been under heavy shelling sitting out in a fox hole. The only way to know if it is true (I have no idea).

I imagine that the language would be more colourful profanity than divine invocation, under such circumstances.

I have no idea what thoughts go through the heads of soldiers during times like those. You'd have to ask to know.

 

[zero]

I think it means that most may say/think "Please God (or Jesus or tbh w/e), help me out" whether they believe in their chosen figure or not.

Most people (in the west) when shocked may mutter "Oh Jesus!" without believing in Christianity.

No atheists in a foxhole.

Disclaimer: Outside of computergames I have never been in that situation :roll:

 

[alex_greene]

Future battlefields might take place a long way from the Holy Land, and in the farthest reaches of the future there might not be any room for religion in war. People born a thousand light years from Galilee might consider that invoking Christ's name under any circumstances would make as much sense as the superstition of not standing under a propped-up ladder.

But their enemies will always be devils, and if they don't send those enemies to Hell there will be Hell to pay.

 

[rust]

Go ask 100 guys that have been under heavy shelling sitting out in a fox hole. The only way to know if it is true (I have no idea).

I only know of quite a few people, including my father, who became atheists
during the war, because - as they usually put it - "religion did not work under
fire".

 

[DFW]

Go ask 100 guys that have been under heavy shelling sitting out in a fox hole. The only way to know if it is true (I have no idea).

I only know of quite a few people, including my father, who became atheists
during the war, because - as they usually put it - "religion did not work under
fire".

Yes, I've heard similarly. Especially during the Great War.

 

[Jame Rowe]

Anti-divinity? No, the devil dies when god does. Which is not the same as saying evil dies. Neither does good and morality die.

Keep telling yourself that.

<snip>

None of that is religion though. Most of it doesn't even qualify as superstition in current usage.

The old adage "There are no atheists in a foxhole." (and similar) has never been true

If one can't be good on your own, and only because it is good, then one is not worthy of a god that tells you what good it. One needs to be responsible on one's own.

For myself, I presume that most spacefaring cultures move away from religion and towards more in-this-life philosophies of goodness (based on and drawing on religions as often as not). Most would, I think, join a church more for the socialization and community than anything else.

 

[alex_greene]

Well, one thing for certain will go by the board. Astrology won't travel to the stars along with the human race. Of that, I feel quite certain.

 

[far-trader]

Well, one thing for certain will go by the board. Astrology won't travel to the stars along with the human race. Of that, I feel quite certain.

I dunno, it survives, even thrives, today in the most scientifically advanced age we've known. Mostly as entertainment, though with many ardent believers. I can see astrology being spun into a much bigger thing with the adherents inventing all kinds of new "calculations" to figure out your interstellar sign...

 

[Mithras]

I have three religions I'm developing;

Holy Stigmata; a Christian religion looking for signs of Jesus wanderings 'in the desert' (of the Universe)

Godstars; essentially the Church of Stellar Divinity; a development of Japanese kami/shintoism

plus some form of jumpspace religion (based on the idea of jumpspace as an unknowable, mysterious, unreachable place).

 

[AlphaWhelp]

I don't use the OTU, and in fact, I don't even use Earth, I do the star wars thing "a long time ago in a galaxy far away" as the foundation for my universe, and I personally have lots of fun inventing new religions for the game (The PCs recently hired a priestess to work as crew on their ship, as a matter of fact).

 

[Nuclear Fridge Magnet]

I "agree to disagree", myself. My views on religion are my own. I don't seek to push them onto others -- and hopefully I will be treated with the same respect (not that I see it happening).

Should you choose to explore the topic in YTU, by all means. I will neither condone nor condemn -- it is not my place.

 

[Sevya]

The old adage "There are no atheists in a foxhole." (and similar) has never been true

Actually, I was pretty much an atheist until the scud attacks in the Gulf War. I probably would have been in a lot better shape mentally if I had found the religion I now follow before the war.

Sevya

 

[OddjobXL]

This is one of the reasons I enjoy the Fading Suns setting as much as I do (c'mon Redbrick, let's have Fading Suns: Traveller and soon!). They spend as much time detailing the central (very neo-Catholic) faith, schisms and heresies as much as anything else. It's loaded with political implications and even technological ones (complete with an Inquisition on the lookout for heretical technologies - in the computer game Emperor of The Fading Suns players can try to manipulate the Church into declaring certain technologies sinful as a way to counter them...).

For that matter the cultures of the main noble factions, and their followers, as well as the assorted guilds and aliens are highly fleshed out and there are many archetypal NPCs out there running around to put a human face on much of this.

OTU's always struck me as very dry and abstract in comparison.

 

[DFW]

NO Religion in RPG please!

When you run a game, you get your wish.

 

[Sturn]

I guess it depends on the setting, but overall I would have to agree with Oddball that adding religions adds more intrique and other dynamics to your game. Why not have it if it opens up other sorts of adventures? I'm not speaking of forcing religion into every adventure, but it just seems like its yet another venue to explore. I wouldn't remove politics, criminal organizations, or military situations from my campaigns either, for example. Why limit your campaign, whether its SciFi, Modern, or Fantasy, to only one venue? Different situations each adventure are nice (not just military situations every time) and religion is a nice tool to be used sometimes, just don't over use it.

 

[Sevya]

We know religion exists in the OTU, since there is a specific government type of "Religious Dictatorship". In S&P 80 there's an article about the Sword Worlds that mentions an Aesirist religion that appears there. However, religion is often a subtle element in people's lives rather than an in-your-face public element. It may be more prevalent on some worlds that others, but most of the time is invisible.

What is religion like in Traveller? Who knows? Some will probably be evolved from what we have now. Others would be as diverse as the civilizations they come from. If you need a religion for a game, be creative!

Sevya