Religon in the Traveller universe.Many paths.

I would completely disagree with the Star Trek-like reduction/ elimination of religion. I believe that religion was kept light in Traveller for obvious marketing reasons.

I've been working on an extensive, historical religious background for MTU with a reduced/modified Godfather view.
When science produces the next great thing the christian communities embrace the belief that "God is great". I believe that as colonists and explorers expand only more and more religious leaders will state "God is great."


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein
:D
 
savage said:
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. -- Albert Einstein
:D

Somehow I felt this topic would eventually lead to this. I'm leaving now with a parting shot at the above oft copied out of context misquote on the subject of religion and science (I leave it to you to seek the greater truth behind it) with other words by the same Albert Einstein:

""The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.""
 
far-trader said:
Somehow I felt this topic would eventually lead to this. I'm leaving now with a parting shot at the above oft copied out of context misquote on the subject of religion and science (I leave it to you to seek the greater truth behind it) with other words by the same Albert Einstein:

Like it matters what the guy has to say (either way) on a subject that isn't held to be subordinate to the physical universe anyway.
 
oh it maters. Your making vast assumptions that he never put his IQ to the subject. And he's not the only guy with an IQ to side for religion.

But the purpose isn't to convert people. It is to evaluate how religion spreads or does it. The general OTU transforms it. Converts it. I'd say that it would expand. You see the new class of "spiritual not religious" types really haven't given up. They just have problems with a book written 2000 years ago for the people of that time.
 
savage said:
oh it maters. Your making vast assumptions that he never put his IQ to the subject.

Not relevant as he NEVER proposed anything of substance on the subject nor conducted research.
 
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/einstein/

His thoughts respectfully submitted. I utilized Einstein as an example of someone great whom was open minded. He actually started out with a negative view and moved to positive... but that being said.

As I mentioned the real topic was religion in Traveller. There is no reason that anyone should "fight" the creation of non-OTU religious content. Actually, it expands the market not decreases it. All those parents that want their kids not to become addicted to video games and would like some morality.
 
savage said:
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/einstein/

His thoughts respectfully submitted.

Interesting but, like I said, nothing of substance nor any research. Just musings. Nothing that forwards the subject in any meaningful way.
 
It was part of his life study and discussions on relativity. And using him as an example, I propose that religions would not fade. There will always be scientists that have strong beliefs not altered by opinionated, tenured professors.

Here is another review, if it help.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html
 
Can we stay on topic before this erupts into yet another Atheist vs. Christian fight oft repeated on other forums? I've stopped visiting one of my favorite forums for this exact reason.

I've been following and commenting since I've been considering some religious background in a future ATU setting of mine. I would like to see what others think before this derails.
 
Science fiction has never completely turned its eye from religion.

I ought to say that this post here concerns itself exclusively with televised depictions of sf. Literary sf, the written word, is a separate consideration I leave for you as an intellectual exercise.

Star Trek, for one, never shied away from the theme of encounters with any number of "Supreme Beings" and entities demanding worship as deities. Gary Mitchell, after his transformation by the Negative Energy Barrier; the Talosians; the Squire of Gothos (an immature Q?); the planet of Landru; Apollo; the Gorgan; Garth of Izar, gibbering and shapeshifting on Elba II; the degenerate colonists in "Plato's Stepchildren;" the Cheronians, Lokai and Bele; the Q Continuum; the Douwd; the Dominion; the Prophets; the Pah-Wraiths.

And Trek never shied away from the themes of questing after the truth, nor of blind worship and the bigotry that that blind worship fosters, along with the conflicts that bigotry generates. Red Hour in "The Return of The Archons;" Vaal worship in "The Apple," where Vaal even forbade sex ("Well, there goes Paradise." -- Dr McCoy); "Who Mourns for Adonis," where Apollo finds himself out of his depth dealing with Kirk, whose ego turned out to be vast, vast; and those religious fools which held Captain Archer's NX-01 Enterprise to ransom in that show's lamentable third season.

A number of times, the show took religious zealotry to one of its logical conclusions. Twice, to a ruined world - the denouements of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" and "Chosen Realm;" and many other times, to the ruination of the pilgrims as they discovered that their Paradise was not as it seemed - the poisonous planet Eden in "The Eay to Eden," the planet Sha-Ka-Ree in That Execrable Film Before Star Trek VI That Must Never, Ever Be Named.

Star Trek was not shy of exploring the primitive side of its most advanced races - the Vulcans had their monasteries, legends and myths; the Klingons murdered their gods, and the monks on Borath attempted to reignite Kahless worship with a clone of the founder of Klingon culture.

Dare I mention the Babylon 5 episode "And The Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place," with the priests visiting the station, the monks that came to B5 during its third season, the First Ones, Valen, the episode "Day of The Dead" with its theme of the afterlife, and Thirdspace?

Plus of course, deities of various stripe have turned up in Doctor Who. Bok ("Chap with wings there. Five rounds rapid!"); Sutekh; the Ragnarok; Fenris ... The Beast ...

All these "Supreme Beings" have turned out to be, to some extent or another, alien beings of immense power, physical and psychic. But still, alien. Not yer actual Gods. The Organians evolved into energy beings from a more primitive form made of ordinary matter; Lorien, "The First One," was a mutant (B5's Grandfather); and Vaal turned out to be a machine. Even Apollo turned out to be mortal, after all, fading into the wind when he was defeated by Kirk's bloated, planet-sized ego.

"What does God want with a Starship?"

As for it appearing in Traveller ... yes, I can see the problems. Your characters are toying with immense forces: pocket nuclear fusion in the form of the FGMP-15; disintegrators, psionics, teleportation ... and along comes this Sunday School vicar, all G K Chesterton, preaching some sermon about men in frocks and sandals being bathed in water by some river, or they encounter a bunch of men in coloured pyjamas talking on about "purity" and "sin" and "heaven" and "hell" in a world ruled by physics and economics, where everything is measurable and where, in all their travels, Man has not met one single solitary angel riding on a clour, playing a harp. Not even some creature with goat legs and a forked tongue and horns.

Doesn't fit, does it?

The characters might encounter some Ancient matrix containing an alien living entity, vast and cool and unsympathetic in its intellect and power. It doesn't mean they just have to kneel and pray to it, even if it can deflect their ship's lasers with a flake of its mind.
 
Sturn said:
Can we stay on topic before this erupts into yet another Atheist vs. Christian fight oft repeated on other forums? I've stopped visiting one of my favorite forums for this exact reason.

I've been following and commenting since I've been considering some religious background in a future ATU setting of mine. I would like to see what others think before this derails.

This is a stretch and suggestive.
:(

The fact is that there is a lot of opportunity and interesting growth by the expansion of modern human religion into space.

For another SciFi example, the B5 monks seemed perfectly "business as usual" as I recall during numerous episodes.

A forum is what the attendees make it. Hopefully, peacefully open to all considerations.


:D :D :D :D
 
I've been watching andromeda recently, and I like the idea of 'the way'. It seems to combine most modern religions, having their main figures such as Jesus and the Buddha as Prophets of some sort. It preaches peace and... well that seems to be about it from what I have seen so far. Very friendly...
 
Sturn said:
Can we stay on topic before this erupts into yet another Atheist vs. Christian fight oft repeated on other forums? I've stopped visiting one of my favorite forums for this exact reason..

Where has Christianity been mentioned?
 
Prophet Jesus is mentioned by name. First season, the episode where they protect the humans with genetic memory from slavers.
So there is at least an influence of Christianity...

Though I suppose it could in fact be Islamic influence, but meh :P
 
DFW said:
Sturn said:
Can we stay on topic before this erupts into yet another Atheist vs. Christian fight oft repeated on other forums? I've stopped visiting one of my favorite forums for this exact reason..

Where has Christianity been mentioned?

No where. Note the "before" in my sentence. I've never seen these topics erupt into an Atheist vs. Islam or Atheist vs. Judaism argument hence I didn't say, "Atheism vs. Religion".

To continue examples in SciFi:

Star Wars (Jedi Knight monks and the Force).
Stargate.
Star Trek already mentioned.
Battlestar Galactica.
More recently, Avatar.

Some (most?) of the major scifi movie sagas seem to contain religion in some form.

For novels, the Dune series is the most blatant example I can think of, scifi pervaded by religion: Fremen with an Islamic past, the Bene Gesserit sisterhood hoping to breed a god, Mentats (order of somewhat anti-tech, human computers). The Fremen led a, "Jihad", across space. The main character developed into a, "God". Titles of the books included, "Dune Messiah", "God Emperor of Dune", and "Heretics of Dune".

It seems religion fits quite well into some of our most popular scifi stories.
 
I have tried to use B5 as my inspiration for how religions (human religions anyway) would work in MTU.

What is great about that show is that several religions are mentioned. Ivanova was a Jew - this came up several times (once she was eating with a Rabbi and he asked if an alien fish was Kosher!). Dr. Stephen Franklin was a Foundationist - specifically mentioned as a religion that emerged after proof of alien intelligence was discovered.

Each race had some kind of religion and it was a part of there lives.

The Monks that appeared later in the show were a Catholic brotherhood seeking to find all of the names of God (alien and human).

What amazed me about all of this, was that JMS was (and is) an Atheist. But, he recognized that religion was part of the human experience and that it shouldn't be ignored.

Where I have trouble, and I expect many others do as well, is not putting just my opinions into all of the alien religions that I might need to create. Of all of the OTU religions, I think the Church of the Stellar Divinity is acceptable, but might be a tough sell to a technological society.

Where I and apparently others as well, have trouble is the idea that if we create a bunch of alien religions that we are somehow diminishing our own. If we accept that billions of people can reasonably worship stars as deities, then what does that say about us worshiping a man killed 2000 years ago, or a prophet dead for 1500 years? The core issue seems to be that we (as people) want ONE religion to be right and true and when we allow other, very different religions equal footing, it makes us feel like ours is not as valid or true.
 
Sturn said:
Can we stay on topic.....

Oh crap, we've all been off topic. The title of this thread is, "Religon in the Traveller universe.Many paths".

Apparently we are supposed to be debating the presence of many sided polygons in Traveller. :lol:

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Religon
 
Sturn said:
Sturn said:
Can we stay on topic.....

Oh crap, we've all been off topic. The title of this thread is, "Religon in the Traveller universe.Many paths".

Apparently we are supposed to be debating the presence of many sided polygons in Traveller. :lol:

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Religon

:shock:
That is what I get for hopping into a middle of a conversation.

:lol: :lol:


Religion like math has limitations. Monotheism, Paganism, Atheist...
The document I am working on for MTU basically discusses the spread of Human religion.
I do like the idea of alien religions and the parallels, Andromeda's The Way, B5's Monks seeking God's name.
 
Back
Top