Readying MGs

[cordas]

When you spend a ready action to setup a machine gun is it put down in the facing of the model at the start of the action, or can the MG gunner turn and put down at a different angle?

For Example - The MG is facing 12 o'clock.

Must he put down his gun at 12 o'clock and take the forward facing from that, or as part of the ready action could he put it down at 3 o'clock to give a different forward facing.

Personnally I feel that a MG gunner should be perfectly capable of putting down his MG and setting it up in whatever facing he desires as part of his READY action. A couple of others in my gaming group insist that it can only be put down in the direction he is facing in, as to change that would be regarded as a movement, and so must take a move action 1st.

Futher from this if you take my arguement as logical (he can setup his gun facing whichever way he wants as part of his ready action), could he change his gun facing use another ready action, without having to take a move action 1st.

 

[tiepilot1138]

I would interpret this as being legal (to an extent). The rules state that " The majority of units on the modern battlefi eld are fast-moving and agile. In most cases, you do not need to worry about which way a model is
pointing when you move it, as it is assumed it can turn quickly enough to face any threat.", which implies facing isn't normally important. Therefore, I'd say that part of your ready action would be determining what direction the MG will face.

Logically, a ready action in a subsequent turn should also allow you to re-direct.

 

[lastbesthope]

When you spend a ready action to setup a machine gun is it put down in the facing of the model at the start of the action, or can the MG gunner turn and put down at a different angle?

I asked that question already in Rulesmasters, Matt ruled on it here:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=357792&highlight=stuck#357792

The answer is you're stuck with the facing you finished your last Move action at.

LBH

 

[Paladin]

Wow. That's not at all what I would have expected.

You have a 360 degree field of fire until you are ready to "Ready" and then sorry, but you were facing forward on your last move. Pay no attention to the fact that you used your last reaction to shoot straight backwards or that you didn't move and your last two shoot actions were used to shoot at 90 degree angles.

You should be able to declare it at the time you ready and decide to lock yourself into position. In my opinion, that REALLY needs to be reconsidered.

 

[cordas]

When you spend a ready action to setup a machine gun is it put down in the facing of the model at the start of the action, or can the MG gunner turn and put down at a different angle?

I asked that question already in Rulesmasters, Matt ruled on it here:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=357792&highlight=stuck#357792

The answer is you're stuck with the facing you finished your last Move action at.

LBH

Urgh Can't understand why a gunner can't turn 45deg to the left when he puts his gun down to ready it.... :? Must be some really dodgy training :roll: or some incredibly thick gunners :shock: but if thats the rule its the rule.

 

[Shane_Mclean]

Wow. That's not at all what I would have expected.

Agreed Paladin, it doesn't make a deal of sense. And, as you point out, it contradicts the facing-doesn't-matter of the game (sure, I get that once you are readied you are locked, but not before). Perhaps the PTB will reconsider...


Shane

 

[Hiromoon]

House Rule time!

 

[cordas]

House Rule time!

Hope the other gamers in my group read this, and agree with what seems to be the majority view here.....

Reading Paladin's post really makes this seem rather silly....

You have a 360 degree field of fire until you are ready to "Ready" and then sorry, but you were facing forward on your last move. Pay no attention to the fact that you used your last reaction to shoot straight backwards or that you didn't move and your last two shoot actions were used to shoot at 90 degree angles.

The only thing I can think of in this situation is that the MG has to be turned to face whatever it shoots at, whenever it shoots and isn't readied; but even this doesn't make sense because surely it should then be turned also when it fires as readied (like in FOW).

Just one question, when it says forward facing is everyone taking this as a 90 degree arc, or are you talking a 180 degree forward facing. We have assumed a 90 degree arc as it makes more sense of a tripod mounted gun with gunner behind, and the fact that the only other mention we can find of facings is in vehicles when it talks about armour and vehicles having sides and rears as well as forward.

 

[Paladin]

Just one question, when it says forward facing is everyone taking this as a 90 degree arc, or are you talking a 180 degree forward facing. We have assumed a 90 degree arc as it makes more sense of a tripod mounted gun with gunner behind, and the fact that the only other mention we can find of facings is in vehicles when it talks about armour and vehicles having sides and rears as well as forward.

90 as per the basic rules under the "Facing" section:

Each of the facings is a 90 degree arc measured from the centre of the model.

I assume it's like vehicles. Draw an X through your model.
front = top 90 degrees if viewed from above/behind.

 

[cordas]

90 as per the basic rules under the "Facing" section:

I assume it's like vehicles. Draw an X through your model.
front = top 90 degrees if viewed from above/behind.

Yeah we got that bit, its just in the facing bit it said vehicles and then we forgot about it.

 

[lastbesthope]

Wow. That's not at all what I would have expected.

Agreed Paladin, it doesn't make a deal of sense. And, as you point out, it contradicts the facing-doesn't-matter of the game (sure, I get that once you are readied you are locked, but not before). Perhaps the PTB will reconsider...


Shane

But Facing does matter, or they wouldn't be a section on it in the rulesheet.

LBH

 

[Paladin]

But Facing does matter, or they wouldn't be a section on it in the rulesheet.

Yes, it's there to say it doesn't matter on infantry and does on tanks unless the cards say otherwise.

 

[cordas]

But Facing does matter, or they wouldn't be a section on it in the rulesheet.

LBH

Yup they matter according to the rulesheet.

Some Models (such as armoured vehicles) have specail rules that require you to know how it is facing. You will find some units can only fire weapons in one facing. If a unit has a weapon that is Front facing, for example, it cannot target models that are to its rear or sides.

1st of all when it says unit I assume it means model(s). Otherwise things are going to get very funny when you have Squads (units) with models inside them that have facing rules such as MGs or I assume man handled TOWs or Stingers.

Anyway the question is currently regarding MGs that apparently only have a facing when readied. If not readied they can shoot in a full 360 degree circle as they are fired from the hip. If a MG model turns 180 deg to fire (wether as an action or a reaction) shouldn't the model change its facing if it's shot that way? As its facing will matter if it readies... If not then why should its facing matter when it chooses to ready? If a MG gunner can spin on his feet to blast behind him, why can't he do that and setup his MG, the difficult time consuming action surely is setting up his MG not deciding which way to face before doing so; as has been proved by his ability to spin 180 degrees to fire, then 180 back again to resume his original facing. Either facing does matter, or it doesn't you can't have it both ways.

P.S. I have never fired a MG from the hip or from its tripod, and have no real experience of how one is setup to fire from its tripod. That said I imagine you pull the gun up from your hip, unlock the tripod mount and lock it into its support position then put it down on the ground and take position behind it as the gunner..... I can't see why when you put the gun down you can't choose which direction you want it too fire in.... Mind you I know this is common sense, and I know common sense doesn't really have much of a role in abstract rules for a war game.

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

In order to get the feel that I think was being tried for and to make the MG as usefull as it should be I vote that MGP take a look at this for the Advanced Rules. With the rapid play of BF:E needing 2 actions to get a MG into position or to move its facing truly compromises the utility of this weapon. At the very least have some of their playtesters run through a series of games with it working both ways and see just how it effects actualy gameplay.

 

[The Old Soldier]

Agree, see above the new survey I posted!

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26850

 

[lastbesthope]

It only takes 2 actions if you're not careful about how you set your minis down when you move tham anyway.

LBH

 

[Shadow4ce]

I agree facing matters... When it comes to vehicles and/or cover.

I believe that if I were "readying" an MG outside of cover, I would set my field of fire to maximize damage. Due to the fact a battlefield is a fluid environment, I may find upon arrival at said MG set-up point, I have discovered a more advantageous field of fire. Selecting the optimum direction to face the business end of a SAW or MINIMI Para to maximize Shock & Awe upon my enemy is part of getting it ready in my book!

Nobody would continue to face the same way while setting those puppies up if the intended target had moved out of the field of fire, but nobody would leave a good position to change which way it pointed either. Of course, real life is not turn based, so chances are the MG toter is turning with the enemy as the enemy tries to flank him. I thought facing was only something vehicles were required to state until actually making ready specifying "this is my MG's facing" until I move or make ready in a different direction!

Readying involves flipping down the bipod and flopping onto the ground with the larger ammo-box or links fed into the weapon. I can flop in 360 degrees from whichever way I ran up the hill to the fire location quite easily. Unless I am trying to take advantage of cover at said fire location, then Ready in whichever direction you want, regardless of which way the model is facing at the end of last turn.

This is my vote on how this should be anyway.

 

[docrailgun]

Unfortunately, I think changing this rule is likely to increase the already considerable advantage of factions with lots of MGs (Marines, Brits). Keep in mind that the 3rd wave units include a Marine squad that can field 3-4 SAWs. WHy field anything else if the Force Recon units are "Squad" rather than "Support".
I wonder if we're expecting too much from the "advanced rules". What if the book is mostly about campaigns?

 

[Xorrandor]

It only takes 2 actions if you're not careful about how you set your minis down when you move tham anyway.

True, but it is a bit inelegant to have facing not matter, except when readying an MG, in which case it doesn't matter this action, but rather on your last one. It's also the fact that the entire unit ends up spending two actions, just to get the gunner reoriented.

I can flop in 360 degrees from whichever way I ran up the hill to the fire location quite easily.

Bah, flopping 360 degrees is easy. 180 is the trick .

 

[Paladin]

It only takes 2 actions if you're not careful about how you set your minis down when you move tham anyway.

LBH

If it's not a big deal then allowing free facing should be a non-issue.