Reading and Writing

[Supplement Four]

I am re-reading Conan stories set in Zamora as it's been a long time since I've read them, and my campaign is set there.

As I swing through Conan And The Spider God, there is a mention of Conan, Captain of the Royal Guard in Turan, practicing his Hyrkanian letters. Reading this, I realized there isn't a rule or a skill in the game for reading/writing. There's the languages rule, sure--and it's a liberal rule as well, but one that is in the spirit of the Conan stories. So, I'm fine with it.

But, what about reading and writing?

The Decipher Script skill seems to be geared more towards ancient and unused languages. I guess one could use that skill for normal reading and writing (but it would skew the character's skill at reading ancient languages).

So, how do you handle this in your games?

Or, do you handle it at all?

 

[WeakAsAKhitan]

We've tackled this one, which I agree really needs an offical ruling, with the premise that Scholars and Nobles are literate in any language they speak at 1st level, and all other characters are illiterate. However, spending one skill point makes the PC literate in any one language they can speak. A bit like the old Speak Language skill. I've wondered if literacy should actually be a feat, in addition to this skill point per language rule.

 

[Supplement Four]

We've tackled this one, which I agree really needs an offical ruling, with the premise that Scholars and Nobles are literate in any language they speak at 1st level, and all other characters are illiterate. However, spending one skill point makes the PC literate in any one language they can speak. A bit like the old Speak Language skill. I've wondered if literacy should actually be a feat, in addition to this skill point per language rule.

Do you keep track like a skill?

Maybe one of the various Knowledge skills?

That may be a neat way to do it. I'm not sure I want to make my players spend one skill point per read/write language (seems a bit expensive, but I understand where you are coming from). What about a single skill called Knowledge (Reading & Writing).

The skill can be applied to reading and writing any language the character knows. And, this will reflect a smattering of reading/writing in the languages the character is familiar with.



I like your idea about scholars and nobles. I'm thinking of giving those character classes two free ranks in Knowledge (Reading & Writing) where as the other classes, as you say, will be illiterate unless they put points into the skill.

 

[Supplement Four]

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to run it as I just described above.



Knowledge (Read/Write) can be taken like any other skill. The character can use this skill for any reading or writing checks associated with the languages the character speaks. Other languages can be attempted at an appropriate penalty to the check.

Nobles and Scholars are given two free ranks in this skill at the GM's discretion.

Note that, as all Knowledge skills are classified as "trained only", a character can still make a read/write check, but all die totals of 10+ are considered as 10 per the trained skill rules. So, even if a character is illiterate, he still has a chance of understanding and writing a smattering of simple sentences and words.

 

[Vortigern]

The default assumption is that all characters, unless otherwise noted, are literate in the languages that they know. Some characters are not, such as southern islanders as a race start illiterate and have to buy it.

There is also reference in various places to the skill 'Profession: Scribe', and using it to track people's facility with more fanciful writing forms such as high stygian heiroglyphs. Generally speaking however my impression is that language, while a nominal barrier, is not supposed to be a hard one to overcome in conan games.

The only really rare or difficult language skills would be the 'odd' ones, like demonic, acheronian, or old stygian. And those I'd think would usually only be of interest to scholars.

 

[thelevitator]

We house-ruled that spending a single skill point gave you the ability to speak the language, and a second point gave you the ability to read and write it as well. It's probably important to note that I give out 4 bonus skill points at character creation that can be used for Craft, Profession, Language and Knowledge skills. We've been using this for our 3.5 games, as I haven't had an opportunity to run a Conan game yet.

 

[Supplement Four]

The default assumption is that all characters, unless otherwise noted, are literate in the languages that they know. Some characters are not, such as southern islanders as a race start illiterate and have to buy it.

Just curious...where is that reference?

 

[WeakAsAKhitan]

In our system, once a PC has spent the skill point he/she can read anything in that language; no skill checks, just either literate or illiterate.
From memory, the Kingdoms of Kalamar Players Guide has a literacy skill optional rule, which also from memory seemed quite plausible. But I don't have it with me. Anyone?
I much prefer the skill-point-per-written-language concept precisely because it's expensive for PCs to uptake. I imagine the default setting of all PCs (other than Scholars and Nobles) in Conan to be illiterate unless they go out of their way, at some expense and with a credible back-story, to make it otherwise. I accept it might be difficult for 21st Century players to reconcile the idea of not being able to read and write, but for the actual characters this seems entirely realistic. I can turn a blind eye to Conan "the Barbarian" always appearing clean-shaven, but not to the idea of tacit universal literacy in Nemedia.

 

[Thorvang]

The default assumption is that all characters, unless otherwise noted, are literate in the languages that they know. Some characters are not, such as southern islanders as a race start illiterate and have to buy it.

Just curious...where is that reference?

I beleive he refers to the fact that only the races described as being 'illiterate' are unable to read or write. Races not so described are able to read and write at least their own language, if not all those that they speak. I think that info will be found in the section dealing with races and languages under character generation. I'd be more specific, but I'm still using the Atlantean rulebook and don't have the 2E book to refer to.

 

[maladaar]

Here is an example that might work.

I am showing Speak Language from the SRD first followed by Read/Write Language (although it could also be called Knowledge (Read/Write).

Speak Language (None; Trained Only)

Action
Not applicable.

Try Again
Not applicable. There are no Speak Language checks to fail.

The Speak Language skill doesn’t work like other skills. Languages work as follows.

You start at 1st level knowing one or two languages (based on your race), plus an additional number of languages equal to your starting Intelligence bonus.

You can purchase Speak Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying a rank in it, you choose a new language that you can speak.

You don’t make Speak Language checks. You either know a language or you don’t.

A literate character (anyone but a barbarian who has not spent skill points to become literate) can read and write any language she speaks. Each language has an alphabet, though sometimes several spoken languages share a single alphabet.


Read/Write Language (None; Trained Only)

Action
Not applicable.

Try Again
Not applicable. There are no Read/Write Language checks to fail.

The Read/Write Language skill doesn’t work like other skills. Languages work as follows.

You start at 1st level knowing how to read/write one or two languages (based on your race), plus an additional number of languages equal to your starting Intelligence bonus.

You can purchase Read/Write Language just like any other skill, but instead of buying a rank in it, you choose a new language that you can Read/Write.

You don’t make Read/Write Language checks. You either know a language or you don’t.

 

[Supplement Four]

You don’t make Read/Write Language checks. You either know a language or you don’t.

Why my system above, using the Knowledge skill, I would say that a character usually would not make a check to read or write a language he knows. Simple sentences and usual communication can be written or read automatically.

But, let's say the character finds a legal document written from one noble to another. Such "lofty" words may not be in the character's vocabulary that he learned growing up in the Maul. This might require a check of DC 5, 10, or 15, depending on the difficulty.

Or, let's say the character tries to read the carvings on the side of a building that is written in a language he doesn't speak. This will require a check, too. The GM will decide how closely related the language is to one of the ones the character speaks and then assign a DC based on that.

A third reason for a check may be that the character has no ranks in his Knowledge (Read/Write) skill. But, he does have a +2 attribute bonus. Since this is a trained skill, the highest the character can throw on a check is 12 (all results over 10 on the die throw are counted as 10). This character may recognize simple printed words like "Halt" or "No". But, hand him a piece of parchment with several paragraphs on it, and a Knowledge (Read/Write) check will be needed for him to decipher the gist. If the document is in a tongue the character doesn't know, then the GM will probably make the DC 15 or greater...a total the character can't achieve on a roll.

So, I would say, normally, there are no checks on Reading/Writing throws. But, there are instances where checks are needed.

 

[Majestic7]

I've simply made it so that only Nobles and Scholars are literate at the start. Others may buy literacy with two skill points, a bit like buying new languages.

 

[bradius]

I GM a game where I've determined that the Kothic barbarian is illiterate. From the backstory of this character it just makes sense. I compensated him by giving him two more skill points. He's now about 14th level and hasn't complained much. We all think it works out well from a thematic angle.

 

[Supplement Four]

I GM a game where I've determined that the Kothic barbarian is illiterate. From the backstory of this character it just makes sense. I compensated him by giving him two more skill points. He's now about 14th level and hasn't complained much. We all think it works out well from a thematic angle.

That's the best way to do things. I play that way too--where "story" and "character" are king.

 

[The Bull]

Sorry to pick this thread up again, gents and ladies.

I am developing a khitan scholar for a campaign to join in and stumbled over the language and especially the reading/writing question.

Does any of you know if REH mentioned writing systems in his works or in any RPG publications? If yes, which ones?

To help you visualize my question. In our time such different languages as English, French, German and Spanish all use the same writing system - the Latin Alphabet. But of course there are others, like Cyrillic or the Chinese characters.

Do you use different writing systems as skills in your Conan campaigns?

I do in my own worlds and with my home-made system.

Thanks for your help.

The Bull

 

[Supplement Four]

Thanks for your help.

I don't have any Howard references, but I can give you some game references about literacy and language.

1. First, look at the write up for the Commoner in the Beastiary section of the 2E Core Rulebook. There, it speaks to Commoners having to put skill points into literacy (where player characters are given literacy for free).

You can use this or change it as you will.


2. More specifically to your question, there is a section on language in the GURPS Conan supplement that divides the major languages of the age into their root families.

LANGUAGE FAMILIES:

HYBORIAN: Aquilonian, Argossean, the argot from the Border Kingdom, Corinthian, Nemedian, and Ophirean.

HYRKANIAN: Hyrkanian and Turanian.

KHARI: Hyperborean, Khitan, and Stygian.

Common to the BLACK KINGDOMS: Amazonian, Darfari, Keshani, Kushite, Puntian, and Zembabwan.

ATLANTIAN: Antillian, Cimmerian, Nordheimr, and Pictish.

SHEMITISH: Kothic and Shemitish.

VENDHYAN: Kosalan, Meruvian, and Vendhyan.

VILAYET: Gulistani and Iranistani.



UNRELATED TONGUES: Brythunian, Zamoran, Zingaran (each unrelated to each other and to any other major family of languages).

These are the major language families, which, of course, are subdivided into several local dialects. There are also certain ancient tongues which, while in general, no longer are spoken, have many manuscripts remaining untranslated, and one modern language which is totally non-human.



3. Do a search on the forum for "langauge" "Reading, Writing" "Dialect" and "Literacy". You'll find that this topic has been discussed several times.


Hope that helps!



EDIT: I just did a search for "literacy", and it turned up many interesting discussions. THIS ONE really caught my attention.

 

[Spectator]

I've seen the "khari" group of languages include Hyperborean here and another spot.

For some reason, in my extensive reading, I can't place the source of why Hyperborean is included w/ Stygian in linguistic groups. Can someone please help me!

I always thought that hyperborean was the proto-hyborean language and race.

 

[Supplement Four]

I've seen the "khari" group of languages include Hyperborean here and another spot.

For some reason, in my extensive reading, I can't place the source of why Hyperborean is included w/ Stygian in linguistic groups. Can someone please help me!

I always thought that hyperborean was the proto-hyborean language and race.

I was only reporting what was in the GURPS Conan book, not defending it. Personally, I'm neutral on the matter.

 

[Spectator]

Yeah reading the Ripke essays and having read Vincent's AWESOME book STYGIA; SERPENT of the SOUTH.
I knew that the ancient lemurians made the Khari go west, and become the stygians (or whatever), but I never remember the Hyperboreans becoming involved.

I suppose in their exodus, some took the southern route around the Vilayet and became Stygians and a few took the northern route and ended up integrating into the Hyperboreans? I suppose that give the Hyperboreans their magical proclivities (which you read quite a bit about in the pastiches and comics).

Edit: I just can't recall if the northern route exodus ever existed???

 

[kintire]

That list is... deeply questionable.

Hyperborean is a Hyborian language. So is Kothic (though doubtless with Shemitish loanwords aplenty)

Khitan and Stygian may have a distant relation from milennia ago, when the two peoples cohabited, but there is no reason to put them in the same family.

The Atlantian list is just borked. I can see an argument for the Antillian (if you overlook the complete disconnect between them and the Howardian Atlanteans) but WTF are the Picts and Nordheimers doing in there?