Reactor size on civil ships
- Thread starter Somebody
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You can design your spacecraft to your preferences.
But this is about canon designs, and the reasons could be standardization, spare capacity for growth, and/or redundancy. I'm sure there's lots more reasons, and could be specific to local conditions.
Now, since I tend to cut corners in my designs, I think I may have a clear view on the issue(s).
Most ship owners are more concerned with return on investment, rather than catering to possible customers, unless they are pretty sure they're leaving money on the table.
But this is about canon designs, and the reasons could be standardization, spare capacity for growth, and/or redundancy. I'm sure there's lots more reasons, and could be specific to local conditions.
Now, since I tend to cut corners in my designs, I think I may have a clear view on the issue(s).
Most ship owners are more concerned with return on investment, rather than catering to possible customers, unless they are pretty sure they're leaving money on the table.
wintertraveller
Mongoose
I like your terms running jump and standing jump.
Somebody, you're right. Sizing power plants for both jump drive power and maneuver drive power doesn't make sense on most ships that don't expect to be attacked as they move to the 100D jump point. These designs may or may not make sense depending on the ship's purpose and risk profile.
Perhaps the mega-corp shipwrights are adding this capability to enhance their profits? There are features in my vehicle that I don't use but paid for anyway.
Cheers
Somebody, you're right. Sizing power plants for both jump drive power and maneuver drive power doesn't make sense on most ships that don't expect to be attacked as they move to the 100D jump point. These designs may or may not make sense depending on the ship's purpose and risk profile.
Perhaps the mega-corp shipwrights are adding this capability to enhance their profits? There are features in my vehicle that I don't use but paid for anyway.
Cheers
Anstett
Cosmic Mongoose
I can see where having a lot of spare power generation can be useful for a ship meant to be in the backwaters for a long time.
Ships can be in use for a century. If the power plant at 100% capacity fresh out of the yard eventually degrades through time, damage, etc. to only 60% it still likely will be able to operate either the Jump or Maneuver but not both.
Empress Marva design is still in service after how many centuries?
Ships can be in use for a century. If the power plant at 100% capacity fresh out of the yard eventually degrades through time, damage, etc. to only 60% it still likely will be able to operate either the Jump or Maneuver but not both.
Empress Marva design is still in service after how many centuries?
I suspect that it is primarily an artifact of higher tech power plants produce more power per dton than lower tech ones. Ship is designed with a certain volume designated for engines. (That used to be what "standard hull" meant for discounting purposes). Now that the ship is being built at TL12 instead of TL10, the maneuver and jump drives are still using about the same power, but the Fusion Mk II is producing 50% more power for the same space compared to the Fusion Mk 1.
And maybe you'll actually want to put those triple pulse laser turrets that aren't in the default design into service and suddenly need a lot more power to shoot whilie running away from (or chasing down...) opposing ships.
And maybe you'll actually want to put those triple pulse laser turrets that aren't in the default design into service and suddenly need a lot more power to shoot whilie running away from (or chasing down...) opposing ships.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Well, given that most civil vessels don't have high maneuver drive numbers, the ability to 'run and jump' can save lives out on the frontier like the Domain of Deneb. In more sedate and less crime-ridden sectors like Core or Fornast, you're absolutely right though.
It's also germane to note that some extra juice in the power plant allows civil captains to upgrade into laser weapons or better sensors, both of which add survivability out of proportion to their costs. Yes, if you're trying to buy a bare-bones absolute minimalist ship you'll probably design it with a 'Vilani plant'... so low-powered you have to turn the lights off to jump. But I would think that most captains tend to prefer something they grow systems into.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
To be fair, fusion reactors are ridiculously cheap.
The big ticket item is the jump drive.
The big ticket item is the jump drive.
It's a very accurate statement. Standard civilian designs should have just enough power for their basic functions - as has been the standard throughout history. An actual merchant (or Megacorp) will be aghast at spending ANY credits on something that just might be useful in some dark, distant corner of the Imperium.
The standard merchant is slow, but effecient. Fighting costs you tonnage and extra credits that are better saved for the bottom line. A merchant that runs in the dark in places where pirates prey is where you'd see tonnage set aside for speed, or even weapons/armor. But the average merchant? Should be a big fat nope. Thousands of years of tight-fisted merchants show that to be a truism. Sure, armed merchants have been around since someone put a weapon on a ship, but the vast majority had no weapons except during times of war.
As we've seen with modern merchants (1950s onwards) speed doesn't sell if you have non-perishable cargo - the Maersk class of fast container ships (30kts) were uneconomical and retires. The Sea Land container ships that were built for US/European trade ran into the same problem - nobody wanted to pay the higher rates to get cargo there a few days earlier. Those ships became the Algol-class fast transports for the USN. Militaries don't have to pay attention to profits or stockholders, so for them speed and economy can be polar opposites.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Yes, but adventurers will want to customise the ship and add weapons...
They are built for an adventure game, not maximum profitability, at a guess.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
And upgrading a power plant would be rather expensive.
Adventurer's do tend to upgrade ships - the classic Millenium Falcon varies a great deal from it's stock roots - upgraded engines, guns, sensors, etc. The mythos classifies it as a "light freighter", but it would be a VERY light freighter. It's actually more akin to a yacht or plaything than a working freighter.
This is where you'd expect to see variants of the ship as far as designs go. The typical Type A trader has it's faster cousins designed from the ground up as faster/better armed/armored ones while their more classic cousins are the stock designs. This is one (of many) reasons I like to purchase the work from Ian Stead (and Independence Games) First off his artwork is superb, but secondly there are variants of the same ship that usually make a lot of sense where you expect to see them.
It would be nice to see more of this by MGT and other publishers. I think most players are willing to part with their money for good artwork and well thought-out designs - but reasonably priced as well. Who wants to pay $19.99 for a 10pg PDF with crappy artwork and lackluster writeups? P
Keeping the game interesting and fresh helps keep interest alive in games.
This is where you'd expect to see variants of the ship as far as designs go. The typical Type A trader has it's faster cousins designed from the ground up as faster/better armed/armored ones while their more classic cousins are the stock designs. This is one (of many) reasons I like to purchase the work from Ian Stead (and Independence Games) First off his artwork is superb, but secondly there are variants of the same ship that usually make a lot of sense where you expect to see them.
It would be nice to see more of this by MGT and other publishers. I think most players are willing to part with their money for good artwork and well thought-out designs - but reasonably priced as well. Who wants to pay $19.99 for a 10pg PDF with crappy artwork and lackluster writeups? P
Keeping the game interesting and fresh helps keep interest alive in games.
AndrewW
Emperor Mongoose
But that grav lance can be deadly in the right circumstances. Even if not as all around effective as a podnaught can be though.Players upgrading their ship would be another reason for me to keep energy shortHave them come up with creative solutions to the problem and or creative ways to use stuff. It makes for good drama when you do not have a "can do all" Supership like a very late war Podnaught with FTL comms to guide your missiles but instead an old light cruiser with a one shot short range grav lance and energy torps.
AndrewW
Emperor Mongoose
Oh but what if that Sword World Q-Ship was really just a merchant and you are declared a murderer?One never knows when one has to take out a Sword World Q-Ship
AndrewW
Emperor Mongoose
Now that could be an interesting species to add.Guess we will need a JTAS article about a spezies of six-legged, emphatic tree dwellers
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
You can use batteries for an adrenaline boost, which is the cheapest option.
You can install a donkey engine, which is cheaper than an upgrade.
You can install a donkey engine, which is cheaper than an upgrade.
It's not that you can't upgrade a ship... but that it's expensive and time consuming to cut out the hull, to move things around to accommodate a larger power unit, and all the new wiring and such required for that.Players upgrading their ship would be another reason for me to keep energy short
And it makes ships that give the engineer something to do (as in "keep them running") or the small craft pilot a job (say using one of the alternate launches from Small Crafts on the Typ M IMS Vigilante)
Which is why if there would be a market for up-engined and powered free traders, it makes perfect sense to have a variant that comes off a production line already. Think of it like this - you can get a factory corvette that is already powerful - but you can still modify it (nitrous injection, different cam, turbo charger, etc) if you want to. There are also those small shops out there that will buy stock corvettes, install all this gear and then resell the corvette as essentially a new car - just with a lot of extra additions.
With so many Free Traders out there already I'd think there would be stock versions that already have these kinds of upgrades for sale. And, as always, one can upgrade the ship they have with the same thing.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Also probably an impetus for equipping with energy efficient components.
Annatar Giftbringer
Emperor Mongoose
Isn’t there an upgraded Free Trader in Pirates of Drinax?
Edit: Fast Trader, ships of the Reach p.2.
Actually in HighGuard 2022 that’s not the case at all. In fact the hero class far-trader is underpowered with the power plant producing 75 while Jump takes 40 and Basic systems also taking 40 for a total of 80. I’ll agree many of the mongoose ship designs don’t make sense but at least in the far traders this is not the case
